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11-13-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
It's not about concepts man, it's about answering questions with more questions and never getting any where.
You haven't even been able to concede the smallest of points that I have been right about. If you disagree, you say why you disagree like it should be but if you don't have a counter you skirt the question with huge walls of text.

But the whole conversation was about who was the best point producer in the 90's. Not who was the better player.
We're not comparing players from different era's here, it's not about prime vs prime or what each did at a certain age.
It was simply a conversation as to who the top point producer in the 90's was and it was Gretzky, end of story.
You don't bring AS's in to compare players that were playing against each other at the same time, it's ridiculous!
When you compare Crosby to OV since the LO, you don't convert it to AS's.
When you compare Gretzky to everyone else in the 80's, you don't convert it.
Why would you, you already have it EXACTLY HOW IT HAPPENED!!!
There's no need to guess or estimate or adjust, no need what so ever!!!

Just admit you were getting a little silly there, that sometimes you have this need to do more with the numbers than needs to be and move on.

See, once again, here you are implying that you can only use AS's or Raw stats and not both. That's the difference between you and I, I don't replace raw stats with AS's or vice-verse. I USE IT ALL to find a conclusion. I go through the raw stats by checking PP abnormalities/spikes, teammates spikes in goals, whatever I can get my hands on. I think back of what I remember of him from that season. I look at his teams record (pretty bad btw in Maruk's case) and I look at what value AS's gives him. I look at the rules and rules enforcement for that year or years.
I get it all and THEN I make a conclusion on how good/bad his season really was.

No, what you do is take AS's and hold to it like glue, no matter what any other info is saying including out right throwing away any info that isn't "in line" with your original AS's conclusion.

The official site has Murray at 103 and Bossy at 95 for those years, an 8 point increase on 95 is 8.42%

Like I said previously, I don't see a single person on that list other than Jagr and Sid(for half a season) that have reached the level of play and more importantly the level of effort required to do what Stevie did in '89 for a full 80 games.

Simply this...the value or weight you assign to AS's(or any info for that matter) in any given situation should be determined by how it fits with all the other information.
If AS's is conflicting with all the other info, then its weight has to be reduced. Same if it was the raw point total in conflict.

There's other factors at work besides just the numbers.
Like during the height of the DPE, you had Jagr finishing ahead by large margins because he was so big and strong, all the clutching and grabbing had a lot less effect on him.
Take away the clutching and grabbing from that time, scoring goes up and suddenly those margins of Jagr become much smaller.
Jagr is not going to increase his points by the same amount that say a Kariya will because the C&G going on was a much bigger factor on Kariya's point totals than it was for Jagr's.
The value that is being assigned to Jagr in one of those heavy DPE is accurate for that season and anyone you bring into that season should have to deal with that value of Jagr's.
However, that value shouldn't carry him to 160 or 170 points in 1990 because the advantage he has on most other players in those DPE years doesn't translate to simply an increase in overall league scoring.
He was already ahead because the reason why those years were lower scoring had a lot less affect on him to begin with.
You have to temper those AS numbers with reality sometimes and you know as well as I do that some of those DPE number values are just whack. Not completely whack but there's some major inflation going on.

I hope I said that with enough clarity. I'm about to go to bed.
Slam dunk.

Nicely done!

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