Round 2, Vote 3 (HOH Top Goaltenders)
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11-13-2012, 08:14 PM
Join Date: Aug 2006
Originally Posted by
Can I just kind of talk outloud for the sake of generating further conversation as we near the bell? If not, just ignore me, I won't be offended...
Instead of figuring out what's right, it might be easier to eliminate what's wrong...like Parent can't be #1 this round...Brimsek can't be below #6...Esposito has to be an odd number or else Belfour has to be on a multiple of 3 which would throw off...etc. whatever.
So, what are we sure of here, anything? Vezina was better than Benedict, it seems, right? I'm having trouble put spacers between the 40's goalies (Brimsek, Durnan, Broda), so I gotta believe they travel pretty close together don't they? Does one have an unanswerable drawback?
Concern: Brimsek looks kinda weak after the war.
Answer: Brimsek had a sloth-like defense that really struggled for him on the road. Comparatively, at home, he seemd to hang with the crowd despite probably having the weakest team of the 3.
How does Brimsek look weak after the war? Brimsek was the
goalie to be a Postseason All Star in all the three years following the war. In 1945-46, he was a 2nd Teamer despite missing part of the season and having to get back in game shape on the fly. In 1946-47, he was a 2nd Teamer again. In 1947-48, he lost the 1st Team on a tiebreak to Vezina winner Broda and was 2nd in Hart voting. Newspaper articles from 1948 talk about Durnan and Brimsek as the best 2 goalies in the league. Seems to me that Brimsek was arguably the best goalie in the world for the 3 years following the war (Durnan was obviously also in the conversation by this point). After 1948, Brimsek seems to have declined.
Concern: Durnan only played 7 NHL seasons.
Answer: But he won the Vezina 6 times.
Vezina at the time = modern Jennings trophy.
Concern: Broda's regular season.
Answer: Still 3x 1st or 2nd teamer, 5 Cups in 7 years, clutch.
So, was Durnan the Dryden of the 40's? I know we keep talking about these three guys to the point that you wonder if anyone else is up for vote but we keep getting to "yeah, but" scenarios. Dryden was punished for lack of longevity and being on a really strong team. So, let's punish Durnan too. He was smart, he was probably a bit ahead of his time, his head and/or heart was/were not exactly in it, he won an obscene amount of stuff.
I don't think so. Dryden has one of the best playoff records of any goalie ever. Durnan's playoff record was fairly disappointing, considering how strong his team was. Also, Dryden faced real competition for his All-Star teams, while Durnan only did for the last 3 or 4 of them.
So, I'm going to go with Brimsek, Broda, Durnan for the 40's. You might be able to slip a goalie between Brimsek and Broda...maybe one or two between Broda and Durnan I guess. So, maybe they aren't joined at the hip after all...
I think it's completely reasonable to separate the 40s goalies if you think one is a step up from the others. Because it stands to reason that there will be multiple guys from different eras in the same step.
So, if we open the door for pre-forward pass goalies like Vezina, we have to open the door for Benedict. Even though a small sample size indicates that he
have struggled with the adjustment...but he was also 38 at the time.
Benedict had just finished his 18th year of professional hockey when the forward pass was allowed and pretty clearly was already on the slow decline.
Is there a verdict on Benedict vs. Gardiner? For some reason in my head I confuse the two and never remember about them.
Peak vs longevity
Personally, I'm not really sold that Parent was better than Esposito. In fact, I can't figure a way to make that so.
We seem pretty content on backburning Belfour and Bower for now...I think I'm ok with that too.
I'm not entirely sold that Parent was better than Espo either. But I am fairly certain that Belfour was better than Espo.
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