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11-14-2012, 10:26 AM
  #241
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intylerwetrust View Post
WHats the knock on Durnan exactly? 2 Cups, 6 Vezinas, and 6 1st team all-stars are above and beyond what some of the top 8 have (not that he should be in the top 8).
Subpar 1940s competition, and other goalies’ accomplishments line up pretty well with his. Like Esposito.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Esposito was consistently very good for a long time, but I don't think he ever beat out Dryden or Parent for an All Star team when either was in their primes. His longerm consistency (at least in the regular season) beats out both quite easily though.
His longterm consistency is important to note, because it was longterm consistency as an elite goalie, not just a good one. Like, almost Brodeur-level.

He was almost always in the top-3 in voting, scouting reports almost always called him the best, or one of the two/three best in the league, and his sv% backs up those positions as well.

He never beat out Dryden or Parent when they were in their primes (unless you count 1972), but he finished ahead of Parent in voting, without making the AST, in 1971, 1978 and 1979, in addition to other seasons where his vote totals weren’t that significant.

Also, don’t be too fast to just assume Parent in 1973 would have been the 2nd AST goalie over Espo, or that Dryden would have been 2nd in 1974. It’s not his fault they each took a year off and he earned those spots. It’s just rather convenient for the argument that they each took a year off, or else we’d be saying “Esposito only beat out Dryden and Parent three times in total for all-star teams”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Tony Esposito showed consistency in his inconsistency. Same could be said about Belfour.
It would be great if this was substantiated. Esposito’s year by year numbers were as consistent as any goalie I’ve seen. From 1970 to 1980, these were his sv% rankings:

1st
4th
1st
2nd
2nd
7th
6th
9th
2nd
4th
2nd


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I don't really understand how the introduction of the Red Line affects anything. Brimsek was the best goalie in the world in the years leading up to the Redline (which was introduced in 1944). And we have evidence that after he got back from the war, he was considered just as good as Durnan as late as 1948.
Yeah, I’m going to go out on a limb here and say it has nothing to do with how good Brimsek or any other goalie is, and just adds needless smoke to this discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Parent and Esposito... I consider them 3/4 in the 1970s, and it's hard to rank that over the 1/2 of another era without a stronger case.
.
It’s easy if the “another era” is the 1940s when two teams were stacked and the rest were decimated by the war. It’s also easier when one guy took himself out of hockey after just 7 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I think there's a definite case for Belfour over Esposito. Belfour had even tougher competition for awards, and was better in the playoffs, which seems to be a weak spot for Esposito.
Yes, Belfour over Espo is not a hard case to make. They’re pretty close to even in the regular season once all factors are considered, but Belfour has a much better playoff record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
The same data may be out there, but from my understanding the same data certainly wasn't presented last time.

For instance, we ABSOLUTELY did not have the information we now have on Vezina last time around. It may have been out there somewhere (obviously it was. There hasn't been a rash of new publications since then saying different things about Vezina) but it wasn't presented or known to people. I don't know why that's a difficult concept.
You are absolutely right. There’s no revisionism going on, just historians doing the best with what they have available. Just like last time.

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