View Single Post
11-15-2012, 07:23 PM
#419
Czech Your Math
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: bohemia
Country:
Posts: 4,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 Sooo...you say that Jagr didn't get a lot of PP time for a while, therefore scored most of his points at ES. Then you try and use that ES to PP ratio, that of course is going to show that Jagr scored a greater % of his points at ES, against Gretzky, who had a more even distribution of PP to ES because he played more on the PP in the beginning of the decade than Jagr did? Just making sure I'm getting this right.
I didn't use the ES to PP ratio for any of those calculations. Adjusted ES points simply means actual ES points adjusted for the ES GPG in the league for each season.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 I mean really if anything it just goes to prove that Gretzky's value offensively was that much greater than Jagr's through those years.
Say what? The player who relied more on a stacked PP for his points, but couldn't compare at ES was that much greater because of that? Interesting conclusion.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 And that those ratio's of ESGF/ESGA are all well and good but If Jagr is only playing 15 minutes a game while Gretzky plays 20-25. And Gretzky is facing the other teams best checkers early in the decade while Jagr wasn't...how valuable are those first half decade numbers really?
If you'd prefer total adjusted plus-minus for each season, which would generally help the player with more minutes:

Gretzky: 12, 0, 10, -10, -19, 13, 5, 18, -12 (+17 total)
Jagr: -10, 13, 25, 23, 44, 34, 40, 29, 42 (+142 total)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 Oh and rationalizing it like a madmen after, still doesn't change the FACT that you used Adjusted Stats as a final answer.
I'm certainly not going to depend on the tally of a bunch of hungover North American sportswriters to form the main basis of opinion for more modern players. The adjusted numbers may not be perfect, but they show a substantial difference in value that matches what I saw. After '92, Gretzky's only real advantage was scoring more on the PP for a couple years, when Jagr wasn't getting nearly the opportunity on the PP, but was more effective in ES ice time (for which they had more similar opportunity). There's also a difference between being limited by opportunity, and being limited by age/injuries.