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11-16-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
The main thing in this trade is that the Marlins are freed from the money owed. There isnt any fail in that fact and the obvious catalyst for this trade. It accomplishes what they wanted to do considering that after spending all that money they were still a last place team. The Jays, were a last place team last year with the exception that they were in a division with a Red Sox team that gave up on their manager and still, on paper, were a much, much better team then the Jays. This is all fact. Did this trade make the Jays better? Sure it did, but the Jays wernt that good in the first place before it and now have a bunch of question marks, MLB quality question marks but still question marks none the less. This, coming from a team decimated by injury last year, trading for more injury plagued players is, imo, of course, a head scratching trade. Thats my opinion, but I think that trying to rely on players who have a history of being unreliable isnt a good idea for a team that had to make some sort of significant move to keep up with the other teams in the division who have all moved forward instead of hold steady and wait for prospects to develop.

The main thing in this trade, is the Marlins wanted out of those contracts. They accomplished that. The talent aquired is irrelevant to that case.Right there, the Marlins win. The Jays needed to make this type of move in a very competitive division to stay relevent. They accomplished that, also. To say the Jays made out like bandits is preposterous when the Marlins not only got rid of all that money, but also got a treasure trove of talent to go along with getting rid of all that backloaded contract which will come back and bite them in the future once Burh and Reyes start to break down. This makes the Jays better now and hurried up their window of actually trying to be something in the east other then a doorstop and on that, i congrats AA for pulling this move off. But, as an honest observer, think it might be a mistake considering who they actually picked up. with the exception of a proven winner like Burh who will go out there every fifth day and keep the Jays in the game.

Um, why not? Its not like the Marlins are deep at any position at any level and have a bevy of starters who will help them from being a last place team.

Thats projection considering nobody knows what will happen.

Injury prone MLB talent=prospects
Cheap prospects trump over paid MLB talent on a team with a budget, also.

Because if you look at it from the Marlins standpoint, its the main reason this trade was actually made. Its great that the Jays went out opened the purse strings to get some talent, questionable talent, but still talent. The Marlins did what they always do, trading MLB talent while their value is high, so for a casual observer, this isnt anything new to me to see. I question if those players are actually worth those contracts, Reyes especially. Burh is what he is, but we shall see what happens.

Um, ok?

IMO, being in a division with proven winners such as the Yankees, Rays, and Red Sox, hurts a team like the Jays, but thats just me. Banking on a team to implode, which is what the Red Sox did last year, to move up in the standings in a stacked division isnt a feasable route to actually staying somewhere and hoping for the best when all JJ has to do is sign with the Yankees and know for a fact he has a much, much better chance at actually winning and playing in the post season. That isnt a knock on the Jays, its just a realistic view that there are better alternatives that hoping for career years from players and trying to beat franchises who know what it takes to win and will do whatever it takes so that they do.

Times have changed. A team like the Jays should be more concerned with developing players thru their system instead of making huge splashes that might back fire on them in the future, but again, thats my opinion. Toronto is a big market, but I dont think the average player wants to play there when there are more lucrative places to play such as New York, Chicago, and the west coast. This isnt a knock, but good luck Burh plays a whole year in toronto when his roots are entrenched in the mid west. This is all speculation and hopefully things pan out for the Jays, I just dont see it happening.

The Jays got a bunch of high priced players, nothing more. They helped out Loria so he can do this yet again in three more years, took over the contractual obligations while handing over a huge amount of talent in the process. The Marlins, by that same token, did amazing too considering they reduced their payroll to almost nothing while getting a huge amount of young talent from one of the richest farm systems in baseball, while jettisoning conracts which were considered questionable when they handed them out in the first place.

And that is the great thing about this trade. If those often injured players get injured again, the Jays look silly for actually agreeing to it. This trade is fascinating in that reguard considering all of the circumstances surrounding it. Will JJ leave after the year? Will Burh get home sick, you cant ask for more then this.

Gose isnt even ranked in the Jays top ten on BBA, D'Arnud is fragile like glass, and imo, Nicolino is a better prospect then Sanchez and Syndergaard. It reamins to be seen what actually happens with the prospects when all is said and done.
I guess it doesn't matter to you that you have no idea what you're talking about, does it? You're going to continue to spew hot air, because thats what you want to believe.

In your opinion? Nicolino is the more polished, both Syndergaard and Sanchez have higher ceilings. Anyone with a clue about the Jays farm system will tell you that.

You say nobody knows what will happen, them proceed to tell me what will happen? These contracts will come back to bite the Jays, apparently? Wouldn't that fall in line with 'nobody knows what will happen'?

Buehrle will get homesick being away from the mid-west? Then why did he sign in Miami?

Treasure trove of talent?

Talent is irrelevant? In a trade? Are you kidding me? What wins games, talent or owners bank account balance?

How often do teams win based on how much money the owner saved?

Prospects are prospects for a reason. They're a possibility. Reyes already is an allstar shortstop who is 1 year removed from a batting title and a guy who can steal 40 bases. Buehrle already is a top end starter, not an ace, but top end. Johnson already is a top end starter, not a prospect.

IF, every prospect pans out to their full potential, it can certainly be debated... But right now, the Jays win hands down. No question, its not even close.

From a business perspective, the Marlins did exactly what they wanted to do, yes... But guess what? Rogers is a multi-billion dollar company that was prepared to open their cheque book and spend some money to compete in the east, and they did that.

If the Jays look at this from a baseball perspective, and the Marlins look at it from a business standpoint, they both win.

You claiming to be objective is contradicted by the countless negative comments you've made regarding this deal from the Jays perspective. Theres certainly risks involved, as there is with every trade.... But why are all the experts, and those who get paid to report on this, praising the Jays and AA? Why is there a complete uproar in south Florida if the Marlins won this deal? Why are the fans of the team so disgusted, yet you claim its such a great deal?

The Marlins had to dump salary. Fortunately for the Jays, that salary also included premier major league talent in the form of two top end starters and one of the best short stops in the game who also happens to be a switch hitting base stealer who won a batting title the year before last. They also threw in a versitle switch hitting utility man who happens to be one of the fastest players in the game.. To top it off, they swapped their backup catcher who can't hit at all, for one who can hit a little.

If the Jays gave up a can't miss prospect, or even a prospect who projected as anything more then a avarage major leaguer then I would bet some Jays fans wouldn't be so willing to call it a fleece.... But they didn't. The only angle the Marlins won from was the financial angle. Thats fine, the multi-billion dollar ownership group was clearly very open to taking on salary to put a better product on the field.

Money in the owners pocket doesn't win baseball games, money on the field does.

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