View Single Post
Old
11-18-2012, 01:43 PM
  #102
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,761
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoytoSakic View Post
Goaltending has changed for the better. Whether if you thing its the right way or wrong way that doesn't matter. Goalies stop pucks, that's the point. Whether its by blocking or saving or whatever that doesn't matter. Back when hockey first started up goalies never went down, then the rules changed allowing goalies to go on your knees. If HFboards were around back then, you'd be complaining how goalies should not be allowed to go down on their knees as it was taking away skill.
Goaltenders are certainly better. Weight training and diets aren't exceptions among goalies' development these days; they're the rule. But given that goalie equipment size has increased so much, yet goalie injuries don't seem to have been reduced, and given that the league has had to fiddle endlessly with the rules and their consistency/severity of application in order to effect their mandate of increasing goal scoring, aren't all the little advantages that goalies have "acquired" over the past 20 years at least somewhat deserving of scrutiny?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoytoSakic View Post
Goaltending has been ever changing for the better of the position. I'm a goalie, I was taught the position by goalies who have been around for a long time. If the current style was wrong or didn't work it wouldn't be taught. The butterfly is more then just going down to your knees. Yes equipment helps, why shouldn't it? Equipment helps out the players, you can say hey baseball players can only use wooden bats. Well good for baseball, the people that are shooting the pucks at you are using any material other then pure wood to take shots at you.
I'm a former goalie. Played at a time when it went from all goalies wearing "normal" trappers (no "cheater") and pads (all leather, of course), to the wealthier kids starting to show up in Vaughn Airs, etc, and trappers with cheaters. And THEN, by the end of my days, chest protectors had become HUGE, and even blocked a lot of the area above the shoulders as well. The issue has never been whether the equipment should help you play better; it's how much does/should it help you play better. Like you brought up, aluminum bats are allowed all the way through minor league baseball, yet ML Baseball forbids their use. Why? Backing up, though, MLB actually has strict rules governing the maximum size of gloves, and even colour (wrt pitchers' gloves), so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoytoSakic View Post
Players job is to score goals, goalies job is to stop the puck. Like I said before the players make an advance in technology and we have to find a way to counter it. Your not getting the point that the game has changed, if this were 80's rules with 80's equipment then your style would work, however it is not.

This is 2012, we can wish all we want about how the goalies back then were way better and had more skill. Its never going to happen though, the 80's are over. You don't have to like the goaltending now, if its wrong go ahead and try and change it. Talk to goalie coach's and high level goalies. Ask them if we should go back to the 80's style of goaltending and equipment.
Why the extreme? We'd never suggest that any business go back to hand-written record keeping and ignore the advantages of the computer, and progress/innovation are obviously key aspects of growth in any competitive market. You don't "legislate" a return to some kind of style, you review/remove certain equipment "advantages" that have avoided scrutiny in the recent past, and you figure out how to use modern materials and fabrication processes to prioritize safety of the goalie while also achieving smaller gear size. Maybe the "accepted style" changes because of necessary adaptations.

Basically, either goalies today are fully aware of the (unnecessary) advantages built into today's gear, or their notions of safety "necessities" are as out-dated as old people thinking they're better protected weaving down the road in their '80s Cadillac boat of a car than a modern compact car with 12 airbags and specially designed crumple zones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoytoSakic View Post
Give Sakic or MacInnis a composite stick back in the late 80's earlier 90's, you'll be wishing that you had decent size equipment real fast. Goalies have gotten bigger thats for sure, helps when the average height of humans increases as well. Size helps, Ken Dryden was considering massive in net and his size certainly helped.
If composite sticks were the key to speed of puck --> goalie safety issues --> injury, Zdeno Chara would be clocking much higher speeds at the skills competition than MacInnis used to with his lumber, and they'd be outlawed already. He isn't, and they aren't. All composite sticks do is affect the amount of energy needed to transfer as much of your energy as possible to the puck (in part, through reduction of material properties like weight). It has not allowed shooters to achieve higher, and therefore more "dangerous", speeds on their shots. Wrist shots may seem harder, as shooters need far less windup to let the puck go compared to other kinds of sticks, but those shots aren't exceeding the "heaviness" of a slapshot so they pose no greater safety risk - unless goalies are unable to concentrate and focus quickly enough to follow the puck, and get caught by "surprise" shots leading to "freak" injuries. Hey, skaters really have to learn how to play with their heads up nowadays with everyone skating faster than the past, so...

Actually, before I forget, the other point of the composite is the engineered "kick point" I alluded to, allowing the stick to release with less windup, and feel the same way every shot - unlike old wooden sticks, which would feel progressively more "pool-noodley" under load through a game or two (which is why we used to have separate game and practice stacks of sticks). Again, though, no advantage to "maximum" velocity, just "feel" of the shooter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoytoSakic View Post
If you want goalies to go back to the philosophy that we only need to protect ourselves, might as well use baseball catching gloves, player sticks, player gloves, player pants with a little more length and padding plus player shin pads. That's all we really need to protect ourselves. Guess the goalies in the 80's went a little bit overboard with those pads of theres when they could have been using something smaller.
No one would ever suggest to go all the way to looking like a lacrosse goalie, I don't think. The ball spends the vast majority of the time above the waist in lacrosse, so the bulk of the protective gear is focused on protecting above the waist. In hockey, the vast majority of the time, the puck is below the waist, so give goalies a bit of lee-way there for sure, but set some new limits. When it comes to the size of the chest protector and glove/blocker? There's definite room for improvement there (no pun intended), and we'd see how many goalies change from first reflex butterfly (instead of using gloves and pads "like they used to") if it was suddenly possible to find holes between the midsection and arm of a goalie again (or by his ears), for example, or if chest protectors were designed "safer" but were designed to NOT absorb/lose every shot into a cave of pillows.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote