HOH Top 60 Defensemen of All-Time
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11-19-2012, 10:23 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Originally Posted by
. Even with none of the dilution, Orr was scoring at a pace nearly double the next best. Never mind the eyeball test, how he simply blew past defenders unlike anyone else in... history?
He was simply a phenomenon, era doesn't account for it.
So even in the 12 team league he scores at a lower rate against the other 5 06 teams, my main point still stands, in an original 06 league (if expansion hadn't taken he would still dominate but he doesn't do so at the same level and that's what my point was.
We both agree that he was a phenom, my point is that he looks even more phenomenal in part due to the expansion. I don't think that is a stretch at all.
True, but Wayne also dominated the period that we are agreeing was the most talent-flush period in NHL history as a 30+ year old. And again, the eyball test shows he was playing the game at a level that at times was simply astonishing. He operated at a level rarely seen in any sport, and I'll leave it at that.
Once again he hits his peak in real stats (and adjusted) in his early 20's and takes a noticeable dip at age 26, still great but a little less so.
Wayne is my pick for the best player of all time so I really don't have too much of a problem putting him into the super god category but for many reasons and not just his scoring dominance.
Gretzky was just as capable of playing defense as guys like Backstrom and Savard who have managed to thrive in the current NHL. I don't see what the problem would be.
My only point is that if he actually was playing defense then his statistical dominance would have been less IMO.
Again, I don't see why Mario would be considered anything worse than a much, much, much better version of Getzlaf or Eric Staal.
Getzlaf has been inconsistent but when he is on his game he is closer to dominating games than Stall IMO.
I'll speak more to Mario at the end here.
So they would score 150 points instead of 200? I'm just not buying this line of argument at all. We're talking about players who didn't just score a lot of points, they
goals out of the clear blue in a manner not seen before or since. And you are going to shackle this guy to his own goalpost so he "only" scores at a level that blows everyone away and not at a level that makes a mockery of the league?
edit: A last thought on the Datsyuk/Mario thing... Datsyuk was 24 and had played nearly 150 games in the NHL when a 37-year-old Mario scored nearly 1.4 PPG, coming in second behind Forsberg. Datsyuk was 27 when a geriatric Mario finally retired after a 22-in-26 partial season. How far can this "players don't play like that anymore" really stretch?
Mario is in a sense the most skilled compiler in histroy though, he doesn't have that aura like Wayne of being a winner and he sure wasn't playing defense on those last few years on those Pittsburgh teams (or ever for that matter).
In that age 37 season that you are talking about only 3 Pens have a worse plus minus than Mario had.
Mario had sick offensive skill but it simply would not dominate (or be as important in a post 92 NHL (post lockout even moreso) in the manner that he was offensively in before 92.
Okay the one year 93 exception.
I'm not sure if my thoughts are coming out clearly on Mario as I'm very tired but will relook at it and have lots of time to think how he ranks on the all time Center list.
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