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11-19-2012, 11:44 PM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
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[QUOTE=RedWings19405;55869889]I remember when I was young and bench clearing brawls would happen and the whole team would fight somebody would go stand by the bench. Now you aren't silly enough to call Yzerman a bad leader are you or not having fire? I mean he needed a Shanahan right. Well maybe Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Kronwall need that guy like Fedorov, Lidstrom, and Yzerman did.

Zetterberg is pretty competitive and fiery. There is a reason he is usually the targeted guy, why Malkin, Crosby, Weber and the Ducks wanted at him so bad. My guess is he plays with a little more fire than you think. He has been targeted too much for me not to believe he is crafty with his stick and plays to the line a lot like Larionov. You might think him soft but it seems the other players around the league don't think that and I have never thought Zetterberg lacks heart. In fact of the two players one of them is significantly better when the chips down and it is time to win in the playoffs. I really like Pavel but Hank is just as important to this team.
I am not saying that Zetterberg is soft. I am saying he avoids confrontation too much. One fight doesn't make Pavel tough. But Pavel plays a lot tougher than Zetterberg... It takes guts to deliver a flying elbow to Jackman's head after he's given you 10 crosschecks to the kidney.

With Yzerman, his combativeness wasn't about fighting as it was about fire. He was hated by officials for the way he berated them (not nearly the class act that many pretend). Yzerman, as he got older, hated to lose.

And symbolically, he was a competitor in the 2002 playoffs on a nearly mythical level.

As for the Kronwall thing, we get it, he is not your favorite person. But a lot of people do respect him, maybe you wouldn't share a dressing room with him. Konstantinov who I know people love around here had a whopping 14 fights in his six year career regular season and post-season. 2 a season and half of those were the grab on and go to the ice variety. Now yes he fought, but you would think he went after every big hit the way people talk about it around here. I don't know why you need to see Kronwall fight so bad, all he would do is grab and wrestle to the ice. He clearly isn't going to be great at it and now that he is the number 1 he can't go to the box either.
Vladdy was tenacious. Kronwall doesn't have to fight 14 times in six years (which isn't exactly nothing, by the way).
But turtling?
Making sure there's a ref between you and the guy who's angry at you?

It's an overall general cowardice he portrays. Konstantinov would turn the other cheek at times... but he did so with a smirk that said "F You"
He didn't hit and run.

Since the league has never suspended him they agree that those plays are legit. Alexei Emelin is going to be a similar player fought once in the playoffs in the KHL, big hitter who isn't going to drop them. Marchenko reminds me a lot of Emelin and I think he might be a big hitter if he evolves that part of his game, but my guess is he won't fight as much either. I think a lot of the European guys don't think you have to answer for clean plays and big hits, it is a part of the game. You don't see it happen nearly as much in their games, that is a stupid NA element that happens a little too often.
We'll see.
The Marchenko I've seen so far hasn't been very physical, but has been pretty slick.

Like i've said a million times.
Dirty and illegal are two different things.

Hitting someone who isn't looking is dirty. It can be legal. it can be illegal.

But when the only physical aspect to your game is trying to catch people with their head down, that's dirty. It's legal. But it's dirty.

And when you play dirty, you need to answer for it like a man, or you shouldn't play dirty.

You can hit hard without catching people with their heads down. You can play tough out front of the net or at the boards (which Kronwall does not).

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