Messier vs. Esposito
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11-23-2012, 05:51 AM
Join Date: Sep 2005
Originally Posted by
Pre-90s, the Selke was the domain of actual defensive forwards; guys who played on the third-line and checked for a living (with the deserved exception of Clarke).
It wasn't until the Fedorov win in 1994 that it became the, 'give-it-to-whoever-needs-a-trophy' bastardization it currently is.
Had voting tendencies been what they were during Messier's peak, I think he wins a couple.
In the 1987 Canada Cup, Keenan had as much talent at his disposal as any coach ever (including future Selke winner Gilmour, noted shutdown artist Sutter, and two-way star Hawerchuk), and he went with Messier wire-to-wire against the best line in the world at the time.
high scoring players were selke finalists before '94. gilmour won in '93, with 127p. gilmour also got votes in late '80s and early '90s, as did other 2 way players like larmer or francis. troy murray coincidentally scored 99p, just outside the top 10 in scoring, when he won his selke in '86.
'83: clarke, kurri, gould, lysiak
'84: jarvis, trottier, kurri, middleton
'85: ramsay, jarvis, tonelli, kurri ----- (tonelli scored 100p in '85)
you seem to be focusing on 3 or 4 seasons ('93-'96), when the selke winner scored at least 1.34p per game. in late '90s and prior to the lockout, selke almost always was awarded to a primarily defensive player.
selke voting has only been awarded to 2 way players since the lockout. i think several were wrongly awarded, but teams are now regularly using 1st or 2nd lines to check 1st lines. all selke winners since the lockout are used to check scoring lines.
i think it would be unlikely that messier would win a selke. i agree with rabbins that messier was not a great defensive player and that his defensive play is overrated.
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