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11-23-2012, 12:55 PM
  #280
ContrarianGoaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
So you made a statement of fact previously that you could not support with any evidence.
What are you talking about, my claim that there are goalies in the minor leagues with good technique because they don't have NHL athleticism and other attributes? I was referring to guys like Yann Danis and Cedrick Desjardins who do very well at the minor league level but can't even hold down backup jobs in the NHL. It takes much more than just being technically sound to be one of the 30 best in the world at your job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
The Osgood example just puts in question his relationship with the NHL goalie coaches he had. Goalies, especially since the advent of goalie coaches have always worked on their technique and fundamentals - practice, training camp, off season, etc, networking with other goalies, etc
Sure, it puts that into question. It also puts into question the importance of being a strong technical goalie considering Osgood's achievements at the NHL level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Crha bolded. So you admit that Crha's pre NHL background was lacking. Evidence that the Czech goalie training was insufficient in general.
Of course. Who is arguing that Czech goalies were well coached? Certainly not me. But you seem to want to blame Holecek for his lack of coaching, and that doesn't make any sense to me because it's largely a matter of circumstance. I think Holecek's success was quite impressive despite his apparent lack of training.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
The flaw shown by Holecek was evident oh the 1976 Olympic and Canada Cup clips, more than one clip, contrary to what you allege.The flaw keeps coming back - which would explain Holecek's bad performances in some international events, listed above.
OK, just wanted to confirm. But suggesting that one technical flaw caused all of Holecek's bad performances while somehow failing to impact all of his good ones would require a mountain of video evidence to support it. Count me as highly, highly skeptical of that oversimplified explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Would like to see your explanation of the specific flaw and why it dooms goalies to the high minors.
Not understanding what you're asking here. I'm not making a case about any specific technical flaws because I don't think they are particularly relevant when rating goalie careers in retrospect.

If you're scouting a prospect or trying to pick a starting goalie in training camp then subjective evaluations will be relied on to attempt to project performance, and that's when you need to be concerned about something that could be exploited by the opposition. But when you're looking back on a goalie's entire career, then what's the relevance? Any weaknesses are already in their performance record because they would have caused goals against. If you're right that Holecek had an exploitable flaw, then he probably did lose some games because of it. We don't need to take off any additional points off.

The only exception to that is if a case can be made that the rest of the team protected the goalie well enough that his flaws weren't exposed. You've made some points towards suggesting that Czechoslovakia was pretty good defensively in the 1970s, but I'm not sure I'm completely sold yet on that one.

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