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11-23-2012, 04:58 PM
Czech Your Math
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Agree with the bolded, as I said earlier, he is still likely a multiple Art Ross trophy winner, and to elaborate I don't think it's just 2, I'm thinking 3 or 4, which is something few have done before. I just don't see how taking away the best player in the world is going to make his league scoring leads even bigger as the previous poster stated. That was the part I had an issue with.
He was saying that in those years where Orr was second, taking away Orr may have actually increased Espo's margin due to that fact.

I agree that Espo almost certainly would have won 2 Rosses without Orr, and very possibly 3 or 4. However, he was very fortunate due to the lack of competition for the scoring title during most of his peak/prime. A few years earlier and he's going up against Hull, Mikita, Howe and Beliveau in much better form. A few years later and he's going up against Lafleur, Dionne, Trottier and Bossy. That's a rather stark difference compared to the offensive production of players such as Clarke and Ratelle. He might not have gotten shut out of the Ross, but even that's possible, and anything more than one or two seems quite unlikely IMO.

Also, most of Espo's ES GF/GA data is rather unimpressive. Aside from ~'69-'72, he didn't seem to be adding value defensively, either through actual two-way play or an effective possession game, and in fact was subtracting from his value due to being a defensive liability. It's more like post-peak/prime Gretzky or Lemieux, when they basically abandoned defense and traded chances, also getting a good portion of points on the power play.

Last edited by Czech Your Math: 11-23-2012 at 05:04 PM.
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