[trentmccleary]

Originally Posted by Litework

Since when is using someone's PPG ranks a good way to evaluate players?

There are lots of good ways to evaluate players; PPG is one of them.

Is a 70 point player in 82 games better than a 68 point player in 68 games?
How come Dave Andreychuk isn't in the HoF despite being what? ... 6th in games played.

I was just stating that Alfredsson's injuries skew people's perceptions of what he was contributing when he was playing.

Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider

Focusing on goals and points is unfair to Sundin given that he earned 25% more assists per game than Alfredsson (0.48 vs 0.39).

You're correct that Alfredsson has more PPG playoffs (5 vs 4) but since Sundin has a higher ppg overall, it implies that Alfredsson has more poor playoffs. Sundin was below 0.6 ppg in the playoffs just once (in ten postseasons) compared to five times (in 13 postseasons) for Alfredsson.

In both cases there might be extraneous factors to consider but only highlighting Alfredsson's superior goal-scoring (and not Sundin's superior playmaking) and Alfredsson's "good" playoffs (when he's inconsistent and has a lot more poor playoffs) is unfair.

Sundin missed what? ... 20 of his teams' last 40 playoff games?

Alfredsson miraculously played every single playoff game during a 3-4 year stretch in which he was decimated by injuries in the regular season. Then he plays a couple more playoff games in 2008 after he was diagnosed with a season ending knee surgery. You can't expect a player to play injured and produce at 100%.

Regardless, I'm satisfied that Alfredsson matched or exceeded Sundin's postseasons... as he did in the regular season.

Sundin was stayed healthier and played longer; Alfredsson had a higher peak.

Originally Posted by Big Phil

Well, here's the thing, Sundin isn't a legendary playoff performer either. He did tend to do well enough though later in a series. There are too many times when Alfredsson just wasn't there in a tight game or in Game 6 or 7. You can't say Sundin disappeared, you can just say he didn't carry the team on his back even once. But Sundin got into the HHOF despite this. He was above a borderline case. Too much consistency over his career and it's hard to pick a time you'd want Alfie over Sundin pre-lockout. Alfredsson on the other hand has his warts and is borderline for the HHOF. This is why he gets picked apart more. Sundin has other things to offset his warts.

Alfredsson outproduced Sundin (PPG) in 8 of the last 9 seasons that they played in the NHL together, including 4/5 pre-lockout seasons.

Originally Posted by Big Phil

See, that's the thing that bothers me a bit about Alfredsson. Yes the Sens underacheived, but so did their captain on several occasions. I mean, Alfredsson wasn't a rookie in 1999 or 2000 either.

1998-99
Alfredsson = 4-1-2-3

Ottawa's 1st line:
Yashin = 4-0-0-0
McEachern = 4-2-0-2
Dackell = 4-0-1-1

1999-2000
Alfredsson = 6-1-3-4

Ottawa's 1B line:
Hossa = 6-0-0-0
Bonk = 6-0-0-0
Arvedsson = 6-0-0-0

Originally Posted by Big Phil

Not once Ottawa or Alfredsson can offset these disapointments. Just 2007 for Alfredsson.

He had plenty of excellent postseasons, you just seem to be pointin to the only one that was Conn Smythe worthy and grouping all the rest together as "crap".

Originally Posted by Big Phil

Yeah I agree, it isn't the best way to judge a player. That being said Alfredsson's PPG finishes don't scream HHOFer either. Again, it does nothing but make him look borderline.

You know that 1/3 to 1/4 of the top-15 or 20 players every year won't be regulars the way that guys like Alfredsson were.

Originally Posted by Big Phil

No?

Sundin - 1346 GP 564g-785a-1349 points
Alfredsson - 1113 GP 416g-666a-1082 points

Big edge there.

He stayed healthier and got to play 5 years in higher scoring seasons.

Originally Posted by Big Phil

Give an edge to Alfredsson in the defensive department but Sundin beats him in consistency, was a 2nd team all-star twice at center (compared to Alfie just once on the right wing).

2003-04
Alfredsson = 7th in scoring, 3rd RW scoring = Jack All
M. Sundin = 13th in scoring, 5th C scoring = 2nd team All Star

Originally Posted by Big Phil

Sweden performances:
Sundin - 39 points in 30 games
Alfredsson - 29 points in 28 games.

All for top level tournaments. There is a noticeable edge for Sundin career wise. Certainly better longevity. At their peak is debatable but Alfredsson loses because he didn't sustain his level of play for as long.

Alfredsson played in the WHC's twice between the ages of 26-38yo.