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11-25-2012, 11:39 AM
Sens Rule
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
Ryan's peak greatness is debatable. He wasn't a Cy Young award level generally, but then he did throw more no-hitters than anyone.

Where he definitely falls short is the "all-around" department. He wasn't even an above average fielder or hitter. He could throw that speedball by ya, make you look like a fool and that's it. It would be like calling Manute Bol a great all-around player.
Manute Bol is Hal Gill. He is not even close to a Chara.

Ryan was great. But he is overrated vastly by non expert baseball fans. What Howe did though is kinda like Ryan... except different. Ryan peaked far later in his career. It took him a long time to really be at his best... his peak physicality was gone but he got control. Howe was at his best at his peak in the late-40's to early 60's.... but after 35 he did some tremendous things like Ryan.

If you can pretend Clemens was not a drug cheat.... He has a career kinda like Howe's. the best in his early 20's at 24-4... and remaining right among the very best into his later 30's and 40's. Bonds is not a great comparison because unlike Bonds Howe was not at his best in his late 30's/40's but ust very close to the best.

I am no expert on Performance Enhancing Drugs.... or anything. But I have watched some Armstrong TV shows... and lots about the baseball cheats.... and accusations some of the current older NHL players and how they could be on HGH. Which I can think might be true. It is unlikely to me in 79/80 that Howe was on PEDs... like not likely at all. And he played ever regular season and playoff game at 15 mins a game likely... at 51/52 years old... and was a better than average player. That, to me, is the greatest story of longevity I can think of. He played EVERY GAME. That is the big thing. He didn't need occasional rest like old Mario or Lafleur. And he was over 10 years older!!! And he was not a place kicker or something... he was a 15 minute two-way NHL player. His skills and speed greatly diminished he still got 15 goals and 45 points!!!! it is absurd!!!! So in that capacity no one can ever compare.
He was more effective than Chelios in his last couple of seasons and was 5 years older!!!

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