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11-25-2012, 12:02 PM
Czech Your Math
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Kind of sick actually. Lemieux's best ES year is the exact same as H. Sedin's. This is very weird considering that the Sedins are considered PP players (at least in my perception).
Well, that's one reason not to evaluate players based on a single season. Even for peak, I tend to look at ~3-5 seasons. Also, I don't think the Sedins are really PP players. They're actually more ES players, at least compared to other "superstar" forwards. The misconception may be due to their initially improving after the lockout, when PPs were up substantially the first couple years. They really became stars when their ES numbers jumped starting in '09.

Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Could you make an argument based on this that Jagr was actually a better hockey player than Mario or that in 15 years the greatest players of all time (right now IMO Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux) will not include Lemieux (just as Howe has fallen off a bit - again, my perception)?
Yes, you can, but it's an uphill battle on HFB, esp. since Lemieux is rated based on peak/prime & per-game metrics, as well as the "what if" scenario. Where Lemieux is most vulnerable is his health, and the resultant lack of durability and longevity. For those who evaluate on mostly a career value metric, I think it's very possible that Jagr has the edge. At the least, I think it's much closer than people will acknowledge, but don't expect the majority of people to admit that.

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