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11-25-2012, 05:24 PM
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
It's pretty clear who drove the bus in the entirety of that relationship and it has been pointed out, had he played on a different 06 team he would have had some good talent to work with as well.
Orr drove the bus more than Esposito. I don't think anyone here is arguing that. Heck, with the exception of Gretzky, Lemieux and maybe even Howe I can't think of a forward that would have driven the bus more than Orr had they been teammates. Esposito is no different. That being said, it is clear to me more and more that people seem to just want to believe what they want to believe. You don't win Hart votes over a guy you are leeching off of. People don't seem to know how dominant of a force Esposito was. He was big, he used his size, his reach and his hands to get where he wanted to go. Serge Savard said you could never move him in front of the net. He had instincts like few ever had. Because no one scores 76 goals and then a slew of 60 goal seasons by luck.

I think it's pretty obvious that voters were looking at the bright shiny object in the room (Phil's record breaking point mark), and not looking as in depth as we are here.

The goal scoring leader and 2nd in points Hull finished in a tie with Howe who was 3rd in scoring. The Hart winner from the year before Mikita doesn't even show up in the top 14 voting in the Hart despite being 4th in overall scoring with 97 points, which was 10 more than in his Hart year were he lead the league with 87 points.[/B]

Frankly I wouldn't put too much stock what the voters were doing in 69.
So............basically we should ignore what the voters were thinking back then during every year? No Hart trophy is relevant?

Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
Factor in that he was in his mid 30's. I can easily pull a list of players whose production had a sharp drop off at age 30, as opposed to the tiny list of players from that era who maintained it past that age.

Without Orr on Team Canada, Esposito is still the guy every Russian Defenseman mentioned as being the hardest guy to stop and MVP in the summit series. His name jumped off their tongues before the question was even done.
He's the first name they say all the time, and should be. Funny how the Russians, and the NHLers who saw him day in and day out couldn't figure him out either. But we apparently have stats that we can shift in order to make him look dependant on Orr............, ah well........

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