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11-26-2012, 06:12 PM
  #351
Theokritos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Do you mean with Bohumil Modry, who won a couple of tournaments in the late 40s over Canadian amateurs
One tournament: the 1949 World Championship. Czechoslovakia also won in 1947, but Canada didn't sent a team that year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
from what I've seen, I'd be extremely concerned if Holecek landed in the top-20 considering that it's at least debatable if he was even the second best Czechoslovakian goaltender in history
I'm not saying he should be a lock for the top-20, but who else is in the debate for being the second best Czechoslovak goaltender? Maybe you could make a case for Dzurilla, but not without even more of the guesswork you want to avoid. Modrư? Not a chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I just get the uneasy feeling that we're creating a narrative to justify some awards
Which awards do you mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
if we were all sitting in a class and we got a piece of paper that said, "I'm positive Jiri Holecek is a top-20 goaltender of all-time because: _____________________________" and then a series of lines for you to write in your answer...someone here can really fill that in without making assumptions and guesswork...and most of all, without lying?
Are you suggesting that people who make a case for Jiří Holeček are lying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Let's pretend that Holecek is 15th. Where do Vlad Dzurilla, Seth Martin, Bohumil Modry end up? They can't be too terribly far away right? Is what Holecek did and recognized for so far and away better than these players? I'm just struggling to understand (and I can't stress this enough, that this isn't argumentative, it's honest, legitimate questioning) what makes Holecek so much more special than these names.
Modrư is not even in the debate, he played in 1947-1949 when the Czechoslovak national team was on the level of a better Canadian amateur club. Dzurilla was all-star goaltender & best goaltender in the 1965 world championship and all-star goaltender in 1969. Nice, but compare Holeček: all-star goaltender & best goaltender in 1971, all-star goaltender in 1972, all-star goaltender & best goaltender in 1973, best goaltender in 1975, all-star goaltender & best goaltender in 1976, all-star goaltender & best goaltender in 1978. Over Vladislav Tretiak.
Seth Martin? A resume comparable to Holeček, but in the 1960s. We know how the 1970s Soviets and Czechoslovaks compared to NHL teams. In the 1960s the level was not that high yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
we've got a guy who was very, very good at that level but not just a complete and utter world beater like Vladislav Tretiak was...the reason why Tretiak made the list is because he was just lightyears ahead of the pack and is recognized for it during and after the fact...
If Tretiak was lightyears ahead of the pack that included Holeček, how come Holeček won so many awards over him?

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