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11-26-2012, 06:47 PM
  #353
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
Ok thank you for the replies. Learned some things, looked ****-eyed at some other things.

Do want to point out that I'm not at all implying that the pro-Holecek crowd is being the least bit dishonest, not at all. I was just rambling there for the hypothetical, it wasn't based on actual events.

Ok, so Modry - who was considered an equal of Holecek's by this large panel - is a no-go even though he may have played far less competition, he dominated them so much more than Holecek. Which I can and probably do agree with. And the 70's international scene was far better than the 60's international scene, fine. I was unaware of just how big of a step it was.
How did Modry dominates his competition more than Holecek? He won 2 World Championships by small margins, only one against Canadian amateurs.

Quote:
Now my question (previously ones, more or less sufficiently answered) is this: what can we say about the eras that are "dogged" here...eras in question. 1940's NHL vs. 1970's Czech League vs. 1970's World Championships. That's just one example certainly. Referring to Durnan, of course. We feel pretty confident that the 1970's Czech League was better because it produced players for the 1970's World Championships that hung with the World Championships masters (USSR)? Is that the line of reasoning, I'm guessing?
Durnan vs Holecek could be its own post.

Quote:
I can't answer why Holecek won more awards head-to-head with Tretiak in that time. It's a fair counterpoint. The people watching those X amount of games in that time and place decided that he was the best goalie there quite a few times. I accept that, certainly. I just wonder why after his whole career is over that no one that played with him and watched him the most over his whole career thought all that much of him, relatively speaking.
Well it is quite possible that Hasek later overshadowed him. It isn't hard to find European sources that consider Holecek better than Tretiak, even today.

And again, that list is very forward heavy. Most European sources consider Jan Suchy something of a hockey god and he's only 7th?

Quote:
The guys that watched him 6 and 8 at a time, loved him. The guys that saw him hundreds more times, didn't show the same respect. I think that's a tiny bit troubling. And maybe I'm alone there...but I just feel like there isn't enough in Holecek's resume for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. Flopped against NHL talent, wasn't far and away the best keeper in his own country.
Correction: flopped in 2 games in the 1976 Canada Cup. Shutout NHL players who didn't make the playoffs on the way to being named Best Goalie in the 1978 World Championships and played very well against the WHA Winnipeg Jets. The Jets were probably the best team in the WHA and were almost certainly better than the worst teams in Thr NHL

Quote:
Unless I'm looking at incomplete information, he and Dzurilla were neck and neck for first goalie in Golden Stick voting from 1969-1978, Holecek with a 6-4 edge.

I don't know, maybe I'm being too picky here...
Why are you looking at 1969 and 1970 when Holecek was not yet in his prime? You might as well include Tony O's 1st Team All Stars against Dryden. Holecek won the Golden Stick, along with 3 runner up finishes. Dzurilla didn't come that close to winning

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