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11-26-2012, 09:58 PM
  #102
4evaBlue
Corsi != Possession
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Are you saying Kulemin wasn't snake-bitten last season? You don't open nets missed and posts hit? I can't watch the games for you.
So I'm the only one who's expected to prove my claims/observations. I see. Sure he could have gotten a few more goals, but the fact that his shot totals dropped drastically (as did Grabo's) shows that the line wasn't generating nearly as much offense as they were in the previous season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
I bet I would have an easier time having people corroborate what I said than you would with you spouted.
With the majority of the board having a mancrush on him, no doubt. Remember last season when he was deemed almost as valuable to the team as Kessel? Yeah, it's not even close, and it wasn't back then, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
You've got it all backwards.
Facing lines who's main role is to stifle opposition's offense, and shutdown defensemen pairings will makes it harder to produce offensively than playing against 2nd pairing defensemen and 2nd lines on most nights. It's not really rocket science once you let go of the crutch referred to as "advanced stats".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Yeah, who needs advanced stats like Corsi and QualComp when we have our imaginations, right?
Coaches and GMs must be idiots for putting no stock in those "advanced" stats, right? Think about it, why do you think that would be the case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Then you're in the wrong thread. The OP was trying to show how he compares to his peers. You've just distorted the conversation to suit your narrative.
The OP only used offensive production, since the defensive part of a player's game is really not quantifiable. To his credit, he didn't resort to referencing idiotic corsi figures.

Looking at the potential chemistry between him, a PFW winger, and a sniping winger is very relevant when evaluating how well he could hold the #1C position around the league. The majority of #1Cs are playmakers for a reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Who is a better centerman, linemates removed from the equation: Bozak or Grabovski?
When only considering the raw natural skill, Grabo by a decent margin. Bozak brings a lot more intangibles to the table, though, which IMO, makes him more valuable to the team than Grabo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Because it opens up even more space for him? Rather than having Kessel do all the work on the line, Grabovski could help shoulder the load and open up even more opportunities for Lupul and Kessel.
Offense is not really a concern for the Kessel line. Had Lupul not gotten injured, it's not really a stretch to assume that he could have remained a PPG player, and Kessel would have netted 10+ points. When it comes to offense, our biggest problem was the lack of consistent secondary scoring (which Grabo's main responsibility), and relying on the Kessel line too much.

The Kessel line could use improvements in their cycling game, and their work along the boards in the defensive zone, but Grabo would not be the player for that role, either. Bozak is a lot better at doing the dirty work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
And I counter with "How do you know it can't be improved upon?"
I've said numerous times why I think it wasn't the case. If you chose to ignore then, you'll ignore it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Mull over those bolded parts.
Not sure how I can say this without constantly repeating myself. How about you mull over the bolded parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Let's not get started about paychecks for pending UFAs. Grabovski's a 55-60 point player being paid like a 65 point player. It's nothing to bellyache over, especially when his contract isn't hampering the team from doing anything. It's foolish to complain about his salary.
He's only actually hit 55-60 point once, during his career year. Not sure I'd call him that until he hits it at least a couple of more times. So far, he's a 50'ish point player with a 59 point career high, getting paid like a 65 point player. He's also nearing the end of his prime years, and could be on the verge of the wrong side of 30 when hockey resumes again.

Salary isn't my main beef. I'm fine with overpaying Connolly as a stopgap, and would have been fine with overpaying Grabo as a stopgap. It's the 5 year term (at $1-1.5M/year overpayment) that's brutal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Only focusing on the bad parts is biased. That's what you are essentially doing by saying "take away the hot streak and see how great he was." You're never as good as your highest high and you're never as bad as your lowest low. If you're going to take out his hot streak in your evaluation, take away his biggest cold streak too. The results will meet in the middle instead of being dragged down because you pulled the data that painted Grabo in the most favourable light.
Naturally, when you criticize someone, you focus on the things that need improvement, and the areas where he doesn't measure up in.

Let me clarify a bit more. When looking at his streaks, both hot and cold, in Grabo's case, they were a direct indication of his play on the ice. Outside of that month and a half, his shot totals declined, and he was a non factor on the ice. So while the lack of production during those stretches is one of the issues, but not fulfilling his primary role (being a consistent offensive threat, regardless of being able to find the back of the net) is the main the problem.

If he was averaging 6 shots a game, and showed that he was generating the chances, it wouldn't be so much of an issue. Instead, he was held to 1 shot or less for 1/3rd of the season worth of games (a full season, not the # of his games played). I'm sorry, but that's #$@n pathetic. When opposing coaches don't even have to worry about out 2nd line for the vast majority of the season, there's a problem.

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