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12-04-2012, 10:27 PM
  #585
DisgruntledGoat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Lidstrom was the common factor across that entire time.

None of the Selke winners that you think call into question his defense were there the whole time.
Lidstrom's career lasted from 91-92 to 11-12.

He played with Fedorov (two-time winner) from 91-92 to 02-03. 60% of his career.

He played with Kris Draper (one-time winner) from 93-94 to 10-11. 85% of his career.

He played with Steve Yzerman (one-time winner) from 91-92 to 05-06. 70% of his career.

He played with Pavel Datsyuk (three-time winner) from 01-02 to 11-12. 50% of his career.

The only time Lidstrom DID NOT have a former or reigning Selke winner in his lineup was his first three years in the league, prior to Fedorov winning his first one. The first 15% of his career.

After that, he played with the player judged to be the best defensive forward seven times out of his twenty seasons. And for a full 50% of his career, he played with ALL of Fedorov, Yzerman and Draper.

No other defenseman has ever been so lucky with defensive forwards. Ever.

Now. . . are you starting to see some other common factors there besides just Lidstrom?

Quote:
Add to this Hollands post-lockout idea that goaltending was the position that had the easiest replacement value and I think you're barking up the wrong tree altogether.
Largely irrelevant what the GM thought about his goaltending. Although I wonder if he reconsidered that position after starting Legace in the 2006 playoffs and losing to an eigth-place Oilers team? Lidstrom, by the way, was -4 in six games that series. . . suggesting that, yeah, he was getting some help when he had competent teammates.

Quote:
I mean, you did see Nicklas Lidstrom play?
Yes, I did. I also saw Orr, Bourque, Robinson, Coffey and a lot of others play. I just find it funny how any time any of those guys get brought up in comparison to Lidstrom, they get denigrated for era/lack of competition/playing on great teams.

And yet, Lidstrom played on a powerhouse team his entire career, never played in anything but a defensively sound system, and benefited from the best collection of defensive forwards that any blueliner has ever been graced with. But we're not allowed to mention any of that.

In fact, same thing happens with all the '90 era Red Wings. There's another active thread here with much the same group of Lidstrom-boosters posting about how Sergei Fedorov is as good or better than Lafleur. They mention his defense, but fail to mention that he played with (in their minds) the best or second-best defenseman of all-time. Meanwhile, Lafleur gets downgraded for the quality of his team. . . and the fact the Red Wings put together a few seasons comparable to the Habs dynasty gets neglected. Curious, is all.

Look, I don't even like the Selke as a measure of defensive prowess. I'm on record saying that in another thread. All I'm saying is: if we want beat a dead horse about European competition/post-expansion dilution of talent/80s offense/etc than let's start to admit that Lidstrom and pals had a few things going in their favour, too.

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