Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71
Prove it!
Show me how the MacInnis with the Blue's in the late 90's was of the same value as the Conn Smythe winning, more than a point a game MacInnis in the late 80's/early 90's.
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This is the Norris voting in his CS year of 89
Chris Chelios, Mtl 226 (37-12-5)
Paul Coffey, Pit 115 (14-14-3) Led all Dmen by 38 points
Al MacInnis, Cgy 57 (3-10-12)
Ray Bourque, Bos 56 (3-8-17) 60 GP
Steve Duchesne, LA 30 (2-5-5)
Brad McCrimmon, Cgy 24 (2-4-2)
Gary Suter, Cgy 15 (2-1-2)
Kevin Lowe, Edm 14 (0-4-2)
Phil Housley, Buf (0-2-5)
Scott Stevens, Wsh 8 (0-1-5) 24 years old
Brian Leetch, NYR 6 (0-1-3) 20 years old
Paul Reinhart, Van 4 (0-1-1) 64 GP
Craig Ludwig, Mtl 1 (0-0-1)
Notice the lack of competition that you always like to argue about, aside form 1 or 2 guys it's really weak in his peak raw stats time.
When I get around to the season by season breakdown of nick and that other guy Al will come up as well.
I've had to bump the start of that back a week because of some time constraints but I'm sure you have already written your comments on it and are ready to copy and paste.
Quote:
I'm not just talking about '89, I'm talking the Stevie all around '89, from 87/88-93/94 before he popped his knee.
Only 2 players outscored him in those 7 years and I think you can guess which 2. The gap from Stevie to #4 over than span is almost 100 points and only Hull scored more goals, 412 to 355.
Gretzky GP-493 P-938
Lemieux GP-384 P-863
Yzerman GP-524 P-814
Robitaille GP-561 P-719
Oates GP-514 P-701
Hull GP-535 P-699
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What you say is all true but the Red wings don't enjoy any real playoff success until Stevie Y becomes a more balanced player and the Red Wings team identity changes from being watch Steve score to look at that strong 2 way strength down the middle with Federov, Steve, Primeau and Draper.
Either way it's really a separate issue from an offensive 1st Dman like Al becoming a more complete player later in his career.
You can look at his adjusted points and Norris voting (and the compettion) to get a better picture of his "value" between the 2 phases of his career. Of course injuries cloud it a bit after 95 as he has only 3 complete seasons, 4 more with around 10 games missed and 2 with around 20.
Still from 95-03 Al is 3rd in dman scoring, along with his improved defensive play.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points
I think perhaps that you are looking and reading too much into the raw stats and can't or won't adjust for era here.