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12-07-2012, 04:39 PM
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by iamjs View Post
Does his international career (I guess you can call playing in Europe that) help his cause? He did win several SM-Liiga awards in 97-98, including Best Goaltender, Best Player Of The Regular Season, and the Kanada-malja, which is their equivalent of the Vezina, Hart, and Stanley Cup respectively.
No, that won't help him. They'll all point to him being in his early 30s as the time he could finally crack an NHL roster. Hey Johnny Bower was at least as old as Tim by the time he finally stayed around but he hung around long enough in his old age to accomplish those things. Thomas will have to go the way of Bower to get into the HHOF.

Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
I think Kipper was hurt more by the lockouts than Luongo. The '05 season was between two seasons in which he A) led the NHL in SV% and GAA (albeit in 38 games) and went to game 7 of SCF in '04 and B) won the Vezina. He likely missed a truly elite season there. He's still a good goalie, although his team is weaker now. Luongo was a 2nd team AS and 3rd in SV% in '04 for a team which was unlikely to make the playoffs. He's still a good goalie, but his situation for next season is unknown. Given that, I'm not sure why you think Luongo is borderline and Kipper a definite no:

Luongo: 339-283, .919 SV%, 2.52 GAA, 8.5% of decisions were shutouts (PO: 32-29, .916, 2.53, 5 SO)

Kipper: 311-189, .914, 2.45, 7.6% shootouts (PO: 25-28, .921, 2.32, 6 SO)
Not enough elite seasons I guess you could say for Kipper.
Vezina voting:
Luongo - 2, 3, 3, 4, 7, 7, 10
Kipper - 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 8

Luongo slightly beats him there, but he's also got a couple other things going for him. He's younger, he's done better internationally and he's peaked higher finishing 2nd to Crosby for the Hart. Kipper doesn't appear like he'll have a lot left in the tank, while I think Luongo can add to his resume. Kipper right now is no better all-time than Mike Liut, which is fine, but not HHOFer.

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