More Luongo Talk
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12-08-2012, 03:26 AM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Originally Posted by
If your roster had:
As a top-6, that's really not too shabby. And with youngguys like Frattin, Ashton, and Biggs coming through the ranks to provide solid depth in your bottom-6, while the number 1 C spot is yet to be filled(although this year's UFA crop looks very intriguing-Getzlaf, Zajac, Weiss[Toronto boy]), it's still a pretty solid group.
I'm fine with that condition on the pick. If I were picky I'd say either top-10 or it becomes a 2nd, or on playoffs or it becomes a 1st the next year the Leafs make the playoffs, but imo there's no way the Leafs with Luongo miss the playoffs, so it doesn't matter to me all that much.
Thing is with Luongo we move more into win now, and while Frattin, Biggs and to some extent Ashton take some of the heat away from losing Kulemin, they don't do it immediately. Ya I would be fine with that condition, either way I just want to avoid giving up lottery picks.
Overall I would counter with:
Kulemin+1st (top 10 protected) for Lu
(this value is the absolute highest I would go)
Kadri+ Mac/Connonlly/Lombardi/Franson/Bozak + 1st (top 10 protected) for Lu
Originally Posted by
There's a pretty big discrepancy between what we've "agreed" upon as a group and that little deal there. We're still no where close enough to build a majority on either side.
Kulemin and Raymond, Canucks are calling a wash. I feel Kulemin supplies more of what we need in a 3rd liner or fringe second liner, but that it's not enough of an improvement to merit either of their inclusions. At least that was my read.
We're running with the rumour of Kadri and Bozak as inclusions, mostly because I feel we're so bored on both sides.
Kulemin+one of them just...doesn't seem anywhere close. Unless the plus was significant, I don't think it will fly as a return.
I mean, one offer that LL or Marty123 had was Lupul+conditional first (on playoffs). I liked that, but Canucks fans don't want a UFA as the meat and potatoes of the deal, and the Leafs fans felt that Luongo wasn't worth a winger thats a ppg with their team and playing a first line role.
The Bozak/Kadri/Frattin/Finn offer is another favorite, but many Leafs fans feel it is too much value, especially in youth, and some Canucks think it's too much quantity versus quality, especially for improving our roster this (next) year.
We're not great trading partners, but we're still trying at least.
Firstly when I said "we agreed to a deal" I was talking about specifically Vankiller Whale and I not Canuck fans in general, which obviously cannot be done.
I agree that Leafs and Canucks are not the best trading partners, but I think realistically if Luongo is going to move in the immediate (he doesn't have to move right now though) it will be to Toronto since I think we are the only real option AT THIS POINT. Who knows what would happen if Gillis waits.
Frattin is doing pretty well right now in the Marlies, and Finn to many Leaf fans and Burke was a huge steal, making them what I see as non-starters.
Deal wise it seems to depend on each person you talk with, so hard to say exactly what Gillis will be expecting. I think at the end of the day the centre piece of the deal will be cap space and some decent prospects/roster players and a pick if they are dealing with Toronto.
Originally Posted by
What were you thinking in sending a player back? If value is good then we need to upgrade a piece in order for us to send someone. I think Raymond would be the player we would send the other way. In this case salary might be an issue for you because you are taking Luongo and Raymond, we can add Lombardi as a cap dump to our takings. By adding Raymond and taking cap dump value has become unbalanced. So I suggest swapping Kulemin for Bozak. This way you preserve stronger center depth and realistically Bozak is more valuable currently than Kulemin because he fills a bigger need (top 6 C). Also Raymond fills Kulemin's 3rd line winger role and leaves no holes, unlike taking Bozak which may leave hole in top 6 C. Vancouver takes 6.3 million in salary and Toronto takes 7.5 million. Only a net 1.2 million on books compared to 3.8 million in previous offer. I know that Kulemin is a piece that you did want to move with Kadri, but if you look at what we did with adding value and cap dump to deal it balances. Also team looks more complete.
Swap Bozak for Kulemin
7.5-6.3=1.2 net difference for Toronto
New offer has savings of 3.8-1.2= 2.6milion cap space
Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
JVR - Grabovski - MacArthur
Raymond - Connolly - Frattin
Steckel - Mclement - Brown
Gardiner - Phaneuf
Gunnarson - Liles
Holzer - Komasarek
(Reilly if called up)
Pretty solid lineup.
By adding a player I meant more to balance contract limits and nothing significant, aka a dump/mid level prospect.
Personally though that deal is a bit too high for my liking since like I probably wouldn't do Kadri+Kulemin in the same deal.
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