Suppose Brodeur, Jagr, Selanne and Pronger all retire in the same year...
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12-08-2012, 02:33 AM
Czech Your Math
Join Date: Jan 2006
Originally Posted by
Doesn't matter if it's one guy, two guys, or one of seventeen different guys; someone was scoring the goals after accepting a pass from someone who wasn't Jagr. I don't care who the finisher was, and I certainly didn't allude to it being Brett Hull, so you can save that "pretend" comment for someone else. What matters is that there
a finisher on 39 occasions to Selanne's 20, and that was the ultimate difference in a scoring race that was made more distant by a GP disparity.
It's offense, but Jagr was further attenuated from it. For a one year argument, I'd stick with 2000, when he had a bigger gap on Bure and Sakic. I think Jagr is a better player than Yzerman, sure, but I don't think it's that big of a gap that they don't match each other in this HOF for HOF comparison.
What you must have conveniently forgotten is that Jagr was constantly double, even triple teamed, even years before '99, and much more than any other player during the mid-late 90s. One play I always remember was against the Caps during the '95 season. The puck made it's way to Jagr, who was next to and facing the boards somewhere around his own blue line. He was quickly surrounded by 3 Caps' players, so he just flipped the puck up ice to an awaiting teammate, who was all alone just outside the Caps' blue line. I think that teammate scored the goal himself, but it might have been another player that received a pass from that open player or scored on a rebound. Either way, Jagr created so much open ice for his teammates, because the only way to really stop him was to double and triple team him. Even with the lack of rules enforcement which allowed clutch & grab and hook & hold, the top priority was to immediately stop Jagr from getting the puck and having any room to skate when he did have it, which often left his teammates wide open. So I certainly dispute the notion that he was "less attenuated" to the offense. He basically was the frickin' offense, and as someone who it seems watched a lot of hockey in the mid-late 90s, you must know this. Often times all notion of man to man coverage evaporated and it was a mad rush towards Jagr when he had the puck, as I'm sure many coaches drilled it into their players' brains to (at all costs) not let Jagr be anything close to one on one with anything resembling open ice.
The real difference between Jagr and Selanne in '99 was that Jagr had 82 even strength points to Selanne's 53, despite mostly playing with Miller, Hrdina and Straka at ES, while Selanne was paired with Kariya and Rucchin. Selanne closed the gap on the power play, so it wasn't due to some near-"phantom" secondary assists where Jagr merely touched the puck on the PP and got credit for assists. He was creating the offense at even strength, as a direct result of the open ice his teammates received due to the disproportionate amount of coverage he received from the defense.
Last edited by Czech Your Math: 12-08-2012 at
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