View Single Post
Old
12-08-2012, 03:25 AM
  #31
Czech Your Math
Registered User
 
Czech Your Math's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: bohemia
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 4,846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Listen:

I like talking hockey with you, Czech Your Math, but I don't like doing so when you're being flippant. Between the above and the Brett Hull "pretend" comment in the last post, I don't feel as though you're being particularly respectful. I didn't say Jagr had great finishers. I didn't say Jagr was getting "phantom" anything. They're both great hockey players and both created a lot of scoring chances. What I'm saying is that an unusually high amount of scoring chances went in for the Pittsburgh Penguins that resulted in more secondary assists than would normally be expected. And I said this as a counter to the argument that Jagr wasn't getting much help from his teammates. The entire existence of a secondary assist is predicated upon help from teammates who are more responsible for the goal itself.

The powerplay argument has merit (and I've argued the same in 1997-98 when the tables were turned and Selanne was the ESP leader while Jagr was the one with the elite linemate). Also relevant: the Paul Kariya effect on Teemu Selanne's 40 primary assists. But Jagr was getting help in 1998-99 and every other season, even if - as Litework said - no individual Penguin was within 44 points of him.
I don't mean to be flippant, but when you imply that Jagr was "getting help" because Stu Barnes hit a near-empty net a few times (which was often created by 2-3 defenders flocking to Jagr), then that seems misleading to me. Of course these players have help, these are all NHL players after all. Straka was a good player, much better than players like Barnes, Miller and Rucchin. There's just a difference between a "fluke" season like Bernie Nicholls, where everything goes his way and he's on the PP with the best point producer in hockey history, and one in a long series of dominant seasons. Maybe it was a bit of an anomaly that he got so many secondary assists in '99... just as it may have been an anomaly that he got so few in '00. However, I don't think it was mainly a product of him just "touching the puck" and having great finishers doing most of the hard work, but rather it was often a direct result of the threat he was on the ice, which necessitated extremely unusual coverage by the defense.

Czech Your Math is offline   Reply With Quote