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12-08-2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Al was still suffering from his reputation as not being the best defensively as evidenced by only gaining any Norris attention in 87 before doing so again in 89

Ray Bourque 266 (52-2-0)
Mark Howe 137 (1-42-6)
Larry Murphy 31 (0-5-16)
Larry Robinson 12 (0-2-6)
Paul Coffey 10 (1-0-5)
Al MacInnis 6 (0-1-3)
Scott Stevens 6 (0-1-3)
Mario Marois 5 (0-1-2)
Rick Green 4 (0-0-4)
Ulf Samuelsson 3 (0-0-3)
Rod Langway 2 (0-0-2)
Mike Ramsey 1 (0-0-1)
James Patrick 1 (0-0-1)
Doug Wilson 1 (0-0-1)
Craig Hartsburg 1 (0-0-1)

In 88 Al is 2nd in Dman scoring behind Suter and doesn't get a single vote in Norris voting which went like this

Ray Bourque 245 (36-20-5)
Scott Stevens 124 (13-15-14)
Gary Suter 80 (8-9-13)
Brad McCrimmon 70 (4-13-11)

Kevin Lowe 24 (2-3-5)
Chris Chelios 10 (0-1-7)
Paul Coffey 5 (0-1-2)
James Patrick 5 (0-1-2)
Mark Howe 3 (0-0-3)
Denis Potvin 1 (0-0-1)

Part of the problem here is Al's defensive reputation and the plus minus of Suter (39) and McCrimmon (48) compared to Al (13).

No doubt Al wasn't as bad defensivley as he was in his earlier career but you would think that if he was as good as he would become that he would get at least 1 single vote don't you? I think the voters screwed up a bit here but that's another matter.
Well, imo you're partially right and partially astray. I'm going to say that there was no "defensive reputation" playing any part, and that "as bad defensively as he was earlier" is certainly subjective. '87/88 sticks out because that's the year they acquired McCrimmon - who I believe took over lead duties on the penalty kill - and a year where Suter outscored him. Suter got votes for his offensive reputation. McCrimmon got votes for his defensive reputation. The guy who did some of both on the same team, and spent his 30 minutes of ice time being paired up alternately with regulars and rookies, wasn't going to get anyone writing in a 3rd Flame candidate onto the ballot unless he was a more obvious choice. It wasn't before McCrimmon lost favour (not long after being named captain, lol) and was moved that Al got handed back more of the responsibilities that ultimately led to the version of Al MacInnis that perhaps more people are familiar with.

That's the same McCrimmon, btw, who was moved from Calgary to Detroit, and paired with a young Nick Lidstrom, and received a lot of credit for the quality and style of defense that he played; allowing Lidstrom to take chances and explore his capabilities, and become the player that most people are familiar with. Pretty interesting tie-in. It's also somewhat noteworthy that McCrimmon was getting post season all-star votes (more than MacInnis) during his time in Philly - just a couple of seasons before joining the Flames. That's partially why I think it was even possible for MacInnis to go without a single Norris vote that year. They flip-flopped who got more post season all-star votes in the earlier years, though (until '89+ when MacInnis wins no contest).

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