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12-09-2012, 12:43 PM
Join Date: Aug 2010
Originally Posted by
I don't believe I was really too out of line...
I understand but you can look at these things to a degree with stats.
With the worst linemates, I did notice and showed how all of Petrell's linemates did worse with him than without.
It was same with goals for/against and corsi so even if you don't trust corsi, it still holds the same.
I also said that since it's his first year in the NHL, this should all be taken with a grain of salt.
I did not look at his PK and if he is a solid PK as a 1st year that can be promising.
Oh no don't get me wrong, you make a strong point. Regardless of his teammates he was most often used as a defensive option, this would make his teammates stats worse. A good example would be how he was sometimes utilized as an option to kill the remaining seconds in a game the Oil were leading, say he was out there with Horcoff and Hemsky it's going to make the WOWY comp. look worse. He also played well in a game or two with the Nuge and Eberle, but having replaced Hall it's not suprising that his two linemates did worse with him. For the most part he was saddled with guys like Hordichuk, Eager, and rookie center Anton Lander, and that truly is a heavy burden. There's a reason i called him a 4th liner and a depth player, but he seems to have the skillset you want out of a 4th line guy, but he most certainly can be argued as being a "poorer" player in relation to NHL talent.
I do consider role played... you can pull that out easily. Clitsome played for CBJ so I don't think being on a "weak team" helps Peckham's case.
Again, I didn't look at PK, but it's very rare for players to be actually solid at PK when they are weak at ES... as much as the layman's eye tells them otherwise.
I think you misunderstand i said his team's ability relative to role. In 10-11 Peckham played many of the teams tough minutes on the leagues worst team, duing this time CLB was average and Clitsome wasn't getting anywhere near the same role. Peckham is excellent on the PK and it's not even debatable, only Smid averaged more PK ice time than Peckham last season. Peckham wasn't as weak at Evens as you claim either, he was even last year and -5 the year before while playing on the leagues worst team during that stretch. On a team like Edmonton most players are going to have a poor Corsi, especially when they play defensive minutes. Regher is a good example of a player who has a poor Corsi but is excellent at reducing 2nd chances and the amount of pucks that go into the net. Peckham is a depth guy at this point, but he's got room to grow and has shown some real potential in valuable roles in the NHL. At the very worst Peckham is an enforcer who can PK and take a shift on the 3rd pairing, that's far more valuable than a 3rd pairing puck mover IMO and certainly alot harder to come by. When you consider Peckham (just turned 25) is still very young for a defensive D (for example Mitchell and Scuderi in LA never even made the league until they where well into their mid 20's iirc) while Clitsome is a full two and a half years older i think it furthers my position that Peckham>Clitsome. At the end of the day i'm awfully confident that Peckham will have the longer career and be the more coveted talent. Clitsome is a depth defenseman with far less room to grow.
I'm not really over valuing or over trusting statistics I don't think, and I think there is value in character also.
But, I think it can get overvalued too. I also think sometimes hard-working-but-inefficient guys get exalted as "character guys" as default since they don't have other abilities... also, if character, enforcer, etc. doesn't make the end results better, than are you really helping the team? (sorry but a bit tangent of my opinions).
I really agree with what you are saying about skill being undervalued for knuckledraggers sometimes, however i would argue that Peckham is in fact an exceptional athlete who's a little short on skill as opposed to just a bully who's willing to be tough. Peckham has a little bit of skill, he can skate decent for a big man, decent shot, excellent shot blocker, great hitter, and a track record as a pro shutdown defenseman. Decision making is his biggest problem at this point and that's pretty much the norm for young defensemen. IMO it's a major arrow if a guy has a resume before the age of 25 as having been used as a shutdown defenseman in a major pro league. Peckham's performance in the AHL as well as some strong stretches of play in the NHL make me feel there is a real player here. He was only 24 last year, that's very young for a defenseman.
Value wise it may be ok but I'd say it's still an upgrade for you guys, and a downgrade for us when looking at the whole picture. (We have some Petrell's in the system)
As others have said i in fact think the very thing Winnipeg does not have an abundance of is "Petrell's". It seems to me Winnipeg had a poor PK and could use some depth wingers with size and tenacity. Clitsome would help the D with Sutton having been hurt and Potter falling off badly after his cinderella start to 11-12, but i don't know if the Oilers have the kind of 4th line depth they need to move a Petrell for a guy like Clitsome when guys who are probably better (Campoli) are avaliable as UFA's. In saying that Winnipeg probably could find some "Petrell's" if they really wanted too, just like Edmonton could find a "Clitsome". I really ought to reiterate that i fell the op was reasonable, just perhaps a little shy of meeting our needs.
Last edited by Eskimo44: 12-09-2012 at
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