Jagr: What could have been
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12-10-2012, 10:57 PM
Join Date: Jul 2011
Originally Posted by
eva unit zero
Messier played with a HHOF winger for 6 years in Anderson, and he had 3 years of another HHOF winger in Kurri. He moved on th New York, where he played with - guess what? - a HHOF winger in Gartner. That's before Gartner was traded in 1994 for Anderson!
Before that, Messier often played on the wing with Gretzky. Even after moving to center full-time, he still often played the PP with Gretzky.
Poor Messier. Such terrible conditions over his career. His wingers don't compare to the linemates Jagr had, such as Hrdina and Kip Miller. Or the star wingers Steve Yzerman had, like Kevin Miller, Gerard Gallant, Dave Barr, and Bob Probert.
How many times did Jagr finish top-5 in scoring, consecutively? And how many in total?
Bernie Nicholls posted 150 playing almost the exact same role Messier did in Edmonton (second line center, PP winger). Gretzky himself only had 168 that year.
Was Nicholls better than Messier?
Messier's defense was/is highly overrated, especially in a revisionist sense. People think "Man, he was great!" Then realize that he wasn't all that great compared to guys like Jagr, Yzerman, Trottier, or Sakic. He just played forever and had a couple of really good seasons thrown into a lot of decent ones, and he won a lot of Cups playing for the Oilers. Finally, if he hadn't made "the guarantee", people wouldn't think nearly as highly of him as they do. He's the modern-day Paul Henderson.
Anderson was only a hall of famer (what...15 years after he was eligible) because of Messier! Just look at how he fell off a cliff without him... hell he didn't even finish his career in the NHL.
and Messier didn't play with Gretzky that much at all.. a little sure.. but nothing to make it really note worthy.
Really, you want to be throwing those kind of stones around? Jagr got to play with Mario Lemieux, Ron Francis, Mark Recchi, Larry Murphy, etc..
And Messier's D overrated? please.. he at least had a defensive game unlike guys like Jagr.
Jagr you at least can compare careers.. but I don't even know where to begin with you saying Yzerman and Sakic above Messier who both were a clear cut below Messier.
The modern day Paul Henderson? LOL
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