Messier vs. Esposito
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12-11-2012, 05:12 PM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Originally Posted by
I don't see how Esposito was a "very good player" though. I just don't see how anyone sees that. I've used the word "unstoppable" to describe him and that about sums him up in a nutshell. Even with the Orr factor how was he anything but an all-time great player? You just simply can't win 5 scoring titles and put that much seperation from them and the next best forward.
I mean............"very good player"? That's shortchanging the guy.
That is nothing more than semantics at this point, regarding my use of the words "very good". Guy Lafleur was a very good hockey player too, was he not?
I don't think anyone here dismisses the impact Orr made on a team. I would certainly hope a team would score less without Orr than with him.
It's not just scoring a lot more. It's getting scored on a lot less too. Due to his incredible possession game. We broke down the numbers earlier in this thread or the other one, and it appears Orr was always at about a 2.0-2.3 GF:GA clip with or without Espo, and Espo's final 1.6 was based on being about 2.0 when on the ice with Orr, and 1.2 when on the ice without Orr. (The team was only about 1.0 with neither on the ice)
The thing is, Esposito's numbers don't change a whole lot without Orr.
Your definition of "a whole lot" is interesting, that's all I'll say.
He is still a dominant center, he is still the best forward in the game and somewhere along the way the Bruins still win a Cup I would think.
That's certainly not a sure thing. Without Orr, the Bruins were a 1.05 GF:GA team. That's not a cup team. With Orr out of the picture, they were better with Espo on the ice than without (obviously), but it's actually very unlikely that a team with that GF:GA ratio goes on to win a cup.
We just don't have a lot of time when Esposito missed to see how Orr would do.
We actually do. We have all the times Orr was out on the ice when Espo was on the bench. the results are staggering.
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