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12-12-2012, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Okay, so he's still finishing second to the likes of Howe and Bourque in contested votings. And it's really hard to attribute all of his accolades to media narrative, when he's a first team all star in the 84 Canada Cup too, and virtually every eyewitness account of Langway during this span of time period backs up the accolades he achieved on the merit of his own play. Whether people couldn't properly valuate Bourque or Howe over this time shouldn't matter, especially when both of these guys are better than the defensemen beating Chara for awards and consideration over the span you're referring to as Chara's peak.

When we're talking about elite defensemen, and your example of Chara's peak includes one of the all-time weakest seasons for top-end defensemen ever (2011), words like mediocre are defensible. And I reject both that there isn't a dropoff between Chara's Norris win and every other season he's played and that any of those seasons are better than Langway's peak. If he repeats his 2009 in any season you just listed, he's either winning the Norris or finishing second to Lidstrom and Keith.

Again, you're confusing prime with peak. Langway's is either better because it's twice as long, or because Chara's is worse on average because you have to include bridge seasons. I will admit that I should have used "from a defensive standpoint" to characterize the comparison when using "absurd," but now we're getting into semantics. Chara gets closer to Langway peak-wise when you take into account offense, but it's also very telling that Chara had to set a career-high in goals in order to separate himself from his competition and actually win the Norris.

And if we're giving Chara "Captain credit" for the Bruins in 2011 despite him not factoring into Smythe discussion for the entire playoffs, how do we properly value Boston's historic collapse only a year before?

Also, for the record, I'm arguing specifically in these arenas: A) Devils advocating against a player I think is a borderline-but-eventually-in selection and B) arguing against using a one-dimensional player who is in almost entirely off of a high level of peak performance and a lot of accolades over a short period of time (with an adequately long NHL career otherwise) as a baseline to measure someone who would get in as a career guy.

But yeah, agree to disagree. Solid arguments.
Statistics alone tell very little about Chara's play. Some can argue 08-09 wasn't even his most deserving year for the Norris.

Yes he would get in, eventually a this point. In another 2-5 seasons when he retires, he will definitely get in.

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