Messier vs. Esposito
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12-14-2012, 11:57 AM
Student Of The Game
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Originally Posted by
Orr would make anyone better on the ice. In fact, Orr would make the whole situation better. I thought we went over this before and you seem to be missing out on something, I actually agree with you on this one. In fact, no one should disagree. Orr was simply who he was and he would elevate any player while on the ice with them.
But I guess I'll ask you directly then. How do you explain these mere "coincidences" on things like Esposito showing up in 1967-'68 and the Bruins all of the sudden becoming a dominant force. It started in 1967-'68 you know. Bucyk had his first post season all-star selection that year, etc. To say that Orr was a factor is obvious, but to say Esposito wasn't a huge factor as well is shortchanging the guy.
Orr developing from age 18-21 was obviously an incredibly huge factor.
Why do you have a hard time saying "Yes, Orr was the engine, but Esposito was also an all-time great who helped put them over the top."
I really don't see a lot of difference between Orr and Esposito and Howe and Lindsay. Lots of comparables there. Each team had their two superstars and one was better than the other, but the second one was still a major factor.
The secondary "major factor" can still be a very minor factor in comparison to an even bigger factor.
Also, I already mentioned, Esposito did just fine without Orr even playing. He still racked up his point totals. You can see this on a season to season basis. Even in 1975-'76 he had 16 points in 12 games before leaving the Bruins. This is definitely a different Esposito from 1971, yet there he was still projecting a 100 point year on the bruins sans Orr.
He was projecting to be a 100 point player who still managed to post a negative +/-. There's "doing just fine" and then there's "compiling points while being poor defensively".
I've noticed one thing with you and that is that you rely solely on stats when you make a decision. Stats are a tool you use, they don't explain everything. It would be hard to watch Esposito play and assume he is nothing more than a 30-40 goal man without Orr. Just saying.
Funny, someone who watched him regularly didn't seem to be so visually impressed (and neither am I from what I've seen), so apparently it is not that hard to say that.
Have you ever told anyone how old you actually are? You talk like you're 60 and were an adult who was able to watch hockey with a critical eye throughout Espo's prime but I highly doubt that.
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