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12-14-2012, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
To be fair to Yzerman, he probably wins the 1989 Hart against anything close to normal competition. Still, that's 1 Hart vs. potentially 3 for Messier (who was 2nd to Lemieux in 1996).
Yzerman should have won the Hart. He was considered the favorite until the very end of the season, and won the Pearson. He had the worst teammates by far, and scored only a point apart from Lemieux and Gretzky at ES.

Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
It's hard to win harts when your direct competition during your prime is Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux and dman like Ray Bourque. It's hard to penalize Yzerman for coming short to those 3.

These two were placed into polar opposite situations. The Wings stunk and the Oilers were great. You switch their teams and the story is similar, but with Yzerman outproducing Messier by a lot imo.

At least one of Messier's Harts he didn't deserve imo. Mainly 1990 when Bourque should have been the winner. It was a nice narrative, but undeserving, Yzerman had two less points and nearly 20 more goals as well.

Samething in 92, Lemieux with 2 ppg. 15 games less played and 25 more points while making Kevin Stevens a 50 goal scorer. Sometimes all these awards do is call into question who the hell was voting.

Messier didn't achieve any of this until 10 years plus in the league.

You can't win the Smythe without great teams. I don't weigh them heavily at all. Yzerman has one too, so does Claude Lemieux.

Messier was an all-time great, but I feel the mystique surrounding his leadership and intangibles to be a load of hogwash.
And that mystique is a huge reason for why Messier gets rated as highly as he does. The "guarantee" in 1994 is a huge part of why people talk about him as an amazing leader and incredible all-time great player. A five minute interview. A single sentence.

Look, I know it's a minority opinion, but having watched both careers I feel that Yzerman was the better player and the circumstances surrounding them make the difference.
Yzerman was definitely the better player. This is like arguing Rinne vs. Niemi.

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