Phoenix LXVI: Get Your Kicks On Thread LXVI
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12-15-2012, 12:35 AM
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Anxiety Closet
Originally Posted by
The original post was to an article that is basically a scathing report on all public arena and stadium projects. I've completely admitted that Edmonton and Quebec City won't make money off their new projects. That's not the point. Cities can still build them if they really want to.
I'm not even justifying one city over the other. You're trying to basically take Glendale's disastrous predicament and put in on the same level playing field as the theoretical arenas in Quebec and Edmonton and that's compeltely disingenuous. Glendale never should have built the arena in the first place. But cities can still build arenas if that's what their citizens want and they realize that it will cost them money.
Glendale is a unique animal that not only built an ill-advised arena for a wildly unpopular sport that was pretty much destined to lose piles of money, they still seem to think it's a good idea to quadruple down on that investment and hand out welfare checks totalling $300 million to Jamison and an unidentified group of shadowy investors when the city is already broke. That is a completely different level of lunacy that the world has never seen. And you try to argue that pointing this out is "hypocritical" and "the rules must be different up north". Well they are different up north. Quebec City is not going to pay the arena manager $300 million over 20 years to manage the arena. That's the key here. Not the original investment, which was a terrible idea to start with, but the ongoing financial support from a city that simply can't afford to support the wildly unpopular hockey team.
So let me see if I get this..... you start out using a broad-minded article to justify one specific scenario. Then when I point out that the same article could be applied to other scenarios you expand on it.
Exactly what I was hoping for.
Oh goody, we're back to blaming Moyes again. The NHL should know what they're doing in managing hockey teams and arenas, especially when they can lean on AEG, who's part of the old boys club. Yet they seem to be losing piles of money each year on the team, even after firing the overpaid coach and paying market rates for travel. How exactly was Moyes supposed to survive for another 20 years in Glendale with a financial sinkhole of a hockey team and arena operation?
I never blamed Moyes. I pointed out the simple facts regarding what Glendale had at the outset in the original lease and where it changed for them. The rest is your own interpretation.
Yes, the BK changed all that, it just made it completely obvious to even those who weren't paying attention that hockey wasn't going to work in Glendale. Yet, instead of figuring that out, the COG has spent $50 million and just committed to another $300 million that they'll never see again to keep that sinkhole of a team around for another 20 years. The BK didn't force the COG to start spending $15 million a year (or $25 million for the past 2 years). They could have watched the Coyotes leave, hire someone who knows what they're doing for about $2 million a year, and been far better off and less in debt than they are now.
Sure... Glendale could have done something different. But they felt it was in their best interest to work with the NHL towards finding another owner for the team that could operate it better.
Yes... they have invested $50million into the process (of which only half of that has been verified been spent) so far. They had two completely different deals fall apart for reasons nobody here really knows (but are always willing to speculate about it) and they are now on a third.
Someone who knows more about Quebec than me can offer up a comparison of rents between the original Glendale lease and the Quebec City one. But once Quebec offers up a $300 million subsidy to the arena manager, then you can try to compare the absurdity of the two.
Guess you missed the part where I stipulated you can't compare the two..... I only made the comparison in the context of the article you originally brought into this.
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