Thread: Line Combos: Defence (minus Cowen/Gonchar)
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12-20-2012, 07:57 PM
  #66
Xspyrit
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We need a quality defenceman to get a playoff spot with Cowen out for probably the season (if it happens).

Over the next 2 seasons we will have so many good forward prospects ready to play in the NHL that we will have to move a few of them.

If the Senators want to get an established high quality NHL defenceman then they will need to pay in quality... not a bunch of our 2nd tier prospects. Just my opinion. I am not sold on Bouwmeester I only commented because the idea was in this thread. We do need a true quality NHL defenceman to replace Cowen this season if we want to make the playoffs. I do believe that. We will be terrible if we can't add a quality #2-4 defenceman that can play at least 20 quality minutes.[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
Prospects are generally overrated. We actually have too many forwards to likely make our roster. Bouwmeester is a proven quality defenceman. He is always near the top in minutes played in the NHL. I don't think he is great... but great defencemen almost NEVER get traded.. unless their is a big falling out like with Pronger a couple of times.
Prospects with NHL potential are valuable. They are young, cheap and you control their destiny (ELC + RFA) for years. Plus they have the desire to show that they belong in the NHL

It's not because we have a lot of them right now that we have to give them away like candy...

Jbo is overpaid by AT LEAST 2 M$, only has 1 year left (after this season that probably won't ever exist) and will be UFA right after

I wouldn't sacrifice Zibanejad + Da Costa + Puempel

We're talking about a 6th overall pick, a 24th overall pick (maybe worth more than that as he was projected to go higher) and Da Costa who was a very touted College Free Agent not long ago and who is probably also worth a 1st round pick as well

3 first round picks for 1 year of Jbo? WTF? Are you even trying to argue with me there?


And "always near the top in minutes played in the NHL" doesn't garantee anything... He plays those minutes for non-playoffs teams


Quote:
Nash's contract was far worse and Columbus got proven NHLer's. Look at how much we had to give up to get Methot. A quality 50 point physical your NHLer... Defenceman cost a ton in trade and as UFA's they always get overpaid. IF the Senator's want to get a quality defenceman in trade... IF.. they will have to give up a lot. One of the top 3 forward prospects (Zibanjad, Stone or Silfverberg) and another good B prospect or 2 of them.. like Da Costa.
Nash's contract is worse than Jbo's? No... because at least Nash is an impact player and would make our team instantly dangerous

Nash-Spezza-Michalek
Silfverberg-Turris-Alfredsson

Check that top-6


Also, who are you talking about? “A quality 50 point physical your NHLer”? Foligno???

He’s good but he is not a 50 pts player… He reached 47 pts once… it was more an anomaly season than anything else… only 15 goals (several in empty nets) and a lot of secondary assists on the cycle, as we know that Foligno is really not a playmaker. In fact, the biggest knock on him is that he doesn’t know how to use his teammates.

Methot is not as a big name as Jbo but he makes only 3.0 per season (45% of Jbo’s salary) and has 2 years left on his contract after this season (1 more than Jbo) and is 2 year younger. He provides less offence but when you account ice-time and PP-time, the difference is minimal.

Seriously, we used Nick Foligno as trade bait because we didn’t want to pay him 3.0 per season or more going forward… We used him a few years on cheap contracts but Sens management decided that it was the time to move on and leave the spot for somebody else (we have ton of young guys like you said)

Finally, I’m not sure if Da Costa is a “B prospect”… in fact I don’t think so. A “B prospect” is Derek Grant or Jim O’Brien…

Yes, the cost to get a quality top-4 D-man would be high but Jbo ain’t that guy because :

- He’s overpaid by a 2-3 millions (right away it drops the value a lot)
- He’s not physical, he doesn’t have a lot of intensity
- He doesn’t produce a lot of points per ice-time/PP time
- Has only 1 year left on his contract
- Is not considered as a player “you win with”

Quote:
We need a quality defenceman to get a playoff spot with Cowen out for probably the season (if it happens).

Over the next 2 seasons we will have so many good forward prospects ready to play in the NHL that we will have to move a few of them.

If the Senators want to get an established high quality NHL defenceman then they will need to pay in quality... not a bunch of our 2nd tier prospects. Just my opinion. I am not sold on Bouwmeester I only commented because the idea was in this thread. We do need a true quality NHL defenceman to replace Cowen this season if we want to make the playoffs. I do believe that. We will be terrible if we can't add a quality #2-4 defenceman that can play at least 20 quality minutes.
I understand your worries but seriously, why even bother as there is not even a season?

I’d rather get an older (but under the radar) D-man for a lot less if that was the price to get Jbo…

We don’t have to make the playoffs at all costs. Sacrificing 3 top prospects is not worth it and it wouldn’t guarantee that we’d make the playoffs as Jbo has never made them.

If we were to move that type of prospects, it has to be worth it and Jbo wouldn't be worth it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
Bouwmeester is far better than Methot is by any possible measure. Tremendously better. They are not really remotely comparable. Bouwmeester is a top 2 defenceman on virtually any team and if he is on the 2nd pairing you have a great defence. Comparing Methot to Bouwmeester in terms of value is craziness.
Is he 2.23 times better? Because that's the ratio difference of their cap hits

Methot is more physical. Jbo doesn't produce a lot of points for his ice-time and PP time...


Last edited by Xspyrit: 12-20-2012 at 08:06 PM.
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