NFL in Toronto - Terrible idea
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12-24-2012, 06:24 PM
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Greg's River Heights
Originally Posted by
For all your typing here, you really brought nothing new to the argument. We know a stadium and ownership are issues but that's not what we're arguing about.
We're talking about fan support which there'll be plenty of imo. Hard to prove, yes but those "silly numbers" you talk about aren't silly at all and are very relevant. Do you really think the 5th most populated city in Toronto can't support an NFL team?
lol. You're basing this on nothing more than a hope and a prayer. Until it's proven that Toronto is willing to financial support pro football on a yearly basis, whether that be the Argos or the Bills in Toronto series, the Roger Goodell and the owners will continue to look at Toronto with a skeptical eye.
And so far they have proven to have lukewarm interest in both products. Argos have averaged around 20,000 per game every season (with the exception of a few seasons) over the past few decades. The Bills in Toronto series has not sold out and has progressively worse attendance and cheaper ticket prices each year. To the NFL, that is not the mark of a future NFL market.
You also bring up the population which of course should be one of the primary factors when deciding to bring a professional sports franchise to a city. Do you know which two cities in the U.S. have a similar population to the Toronto DaaaaaaB's? Atlanta and Miami.
Similar populations, strong corporate base in Atlanta (not sure about Miami) and lots of wealthy individuals. And how has hockey worked out there DaaaaaaB's? Atlanta moved in 2011 after reportedly losing tens of millions of dollars over its last 5 - 7 years. Atlanta apparently averaged something like $400,000 per game in gate revenue - an unstainable number in a league that probably requires a million plus per game in order for a franchise to have any hope of profitability. TV numbers were pathetic as well.
IT's not much better in Miami. Several years of poor attendance although that appears to have turned around recently. However, they gate revenue per game is still only $500,000 per game and their TV ratings are still atrocious. What's assisting them right now is a lease agreement they have in place and one of the busiest venues in North America (for non-sporting events).
The NHL made a mistake going into these markets in a haphazard fashion with the belief that hockey would be a profitable venture for the forseeable future, counting primarily on corporate strength and population numbers of these markets to support their stance.
Fortunately, the NFL will not be so reckless. They will look carefully at all the numbers before even considering Toronto as an expansion/relocation market. And right now, those numbers, other than population, are not very flattering to Toronto. The attendance numbers in particular show true apathy from the Toronto population.
Originally Posted by
Yeah, the stadium and ownership are wrinkles that need to be ironed out but they could come together rather easily. Plenty of examples of this in the past with other cities.
You make this seem like it's a small formality. It most assuredly is not. The feds won't fund it. The city and the province won't fund it, at least not in any significant way, since they are both drowning in red ink. The optics of funding a pro sports team with the ONtario still struggling with unemployment would be horrible.
Also, what examples of cities that have never had an NFL team before and have had to rely primarily on private funding are you referring to?[/QUOTE]
Originally Posted by
As for your bolded paragraph, if other cities can do it, what makes you think Toronto can't?
Don't use the Bils/CFL arguments either, they're pointless and irrelevant.
BUt what else can the league base their decision on? Sorry, the population factor is not a compelling reason all on its own. NHL cities with large populations and poor support are proof of that.
The NFL will look at these other factors like the city's support for football as it stands right now and the signs aren't very encouraging. If that's your argument, Los Angeles, Mexico City and London are better options anyways.
Two other things, Toronto will have no positive effect on TV ratings in the U.S. and the Toronto is considered part of Bills' territory. These are yet two other factors working against the city.
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