Where would Lemieux rank without the cups?
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12-26-2012, 08:22 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Originally Posted by
The first part in bold, yes the Blackhawks were a great team and were on an 11 game winning streak when they ran into Pittsburgh.
The second part has as much to do with the teams they played for as much as it does for the individual player.
The Flyers were an up and coming team and were destined to regain their status among the elite of the NHL.
As for the Penguins with Crosby, they missed the playoffs in his first season, then they got Malkin, Staal and Fleury and they only got better. They were the deepest team at center and probably one of the deepest teams the NHL has ever seen at center. Crosby was a big part of the puzzle but he was nowhere near as instrumental to his team's success (in his first 7 seasons) as Lemieux was to his.
I don't mean to nitpick at your Crosby arguments but are you really trying to sell Crosby's first 7 seasons as this "legendary on pace to greatness" first 7 seasons?
He only has 1 Cup, 1 Art Ross, 1 Hart and Rocket Richard and has played 3 season in which he missed 29 games or more.
Crosby's first 7 seasons in terms of PPG is great (playing less games does that for you) but his award count and actual dominance over his peers is vastly overrated and exaggerated.
Malkin, Ovechkin, Jagr, Lindros, Lemieux, Bossy, Orr and Gretzky have all had a better 7 seasons starts to their careers than Crosby has had.
The bolded part would be a very interesting question to look at all of those players and their total contribution in their 1st 7 years. Bossy doesn't really fit IMO for a variety of reasons, the biggest being him not be the obvious focal point with Potvin and Trotts there from the start but maybe that's nitpicking who knows.
Uh they had MAF, he was 21 in Crosby's 1st rookie season where he led the Pens in scoring with 102 points and a minus 1 rating, next best was gonchar with 58 points, then recchi 57, LeClair at 51.
Mario had 100 points and was minus 35 (middle of the pack for the team) and while his line mates scored better than Sid's next best on the team, Bullard the 2nd line center also had over 60 points.
Mario's teams certainly added way more talent around him than they have with Crosby as well.
No one is arguing that Mario isn't an offensive force of nature but for a guy who was as dominant offensively as he was his plus/minus over his 1st 7 seasons was
Sid by comparison sits at plus 80 and has never had the supporting cast that Mario did in 91 when they airlifted in considerable talent to compliment what they already had to win the cup despite missing the playoffs the previous year with considerable offensive talent aside from Mario.
Mario was only able to win the cup when the Pens surrounded him with the defensive and 2 way talent and to say that Minny and the Black Hawks were great teams is a stretch, the hawks were probably better but neither is above average in SC losing teams IMO.
Last edited by Hardyvan123: 12-26-2012 at
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