Is Grabovski a top-six centre on a contender?
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12-26-2012, 09:04 PM
Realism ** Optimism
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Originally Posted by
Just looking at GA ON/60 (or 20 or whatever)
pretty useless without context. If you look at the forwards with the highest GA ON/60 it's mostly filled with players that played on teams with poor goaltending (Leafs, Islanders, Blue Jackets, Lightning, Blackhawks, etc.). It's also highly dependent on the quality of competition and teammates, look at someone like Plekanec. He's considered one of the better defensive forwards in the league and actually got a few Selke votes and he has one of the highest GA ON/60 in the league among forwards (higher than Grabovski,
he played with a great goaltender). I guess Grabovski is a better defensive forward than Jonathan Toews and Jordan Staal as well because his GA ON/60 was lower than both of theirs.
If you want to look at GA ON/60 you have to compare it to GA OFF/60, but even that isn't entirely telling because it completely disregards quality of competition, which is a huge factor (again, even forwards like Jonathan Toews and Jordan Staal have a higher GA ON/60 than GA OFF/60 because of the quality of competition they face, I cannot emphasize enough how big of a factor that is). Grabovski's GA ON/60 is actually lower than his GA OFF/60 which is pretty impressive considering the quality of competition he faces.
But I have no doubts that you'll ignore this and focus on some minor detail, or claim that I'm trying to say Grabovski is better than Toews and Staal defensively, or bring up team GA again (
), I don't know if Grabovski ran over your dog or something but it's seriously kinda sad how in denial you are right now. People bring up advanced statistics for pages saying that Grabovski is a great defensive forward, and all of a sudden you find one (largely useless) statistic where he doesn't fare too well and that's supposed to trump all that?
EDIT: It seems like you don't understand what these statistics mean or how to use them, you just found when where Grabovski didn't do too hot and instantly pointed to it. Although it is probably a more sound argument than looking at his +/- over a small handful of games or looking at team GA.
Another Leafs fan that likes to ignore stats, btw I was still waiting for your response on my last reply to you when I pointed out how Bozak outscored Grabovski the last 10 games of the year without Lupul and how Grabovski went -6 without Kulemin as his winger.
Why don't you compare the GA20 on the Leafs? Why are you ignoring these stats. You and Hennig are claiming he is our best defensive Center, he isn't, he doesn't play a style that is condusive to protecting leads, supported by the GA20 stat. He only knows one way to play, attack, when he isn't attacking it takes away his effectiveness. This makes him a liability when Leafs are trying to close out a game, you remember, Leafs try to outscore their weaknesses, there is no defence in the top 2 lines.
He's a good centre for a bottom feeder team and perhaps some playoff teams, but not one that can do the things of a Bergeron or Richards, number 2 Centers on contending teams. That's what this thread is about. Being a good #2 C on a 25th, 21st, 29th, and 23rd place team his 4 years with the Leafs does not make him a good #2 on a contender. A good #2 on a contender is Zetterberg, Bergeron, Richards, Henriques, Kesler, Schenn, Malkin, Coulture, act...Not Grabovski.
Last edited by Interactif: 12-26-2012 at
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