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12-28-2012, 01:13 PM
Join Date: May 2007
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I assume you're passively-aggressively addressing me, so I'll take a second.

I'm sorry if it seemed like I'm implying that it's just Rangers fans. I agree with you, everybody, from scouting agencies, to announcers, everybody. You're quite right. People (Fans, scouts, media) see he size and speed and, to be honest, the 'good American kid' thing, and they want him to be more than he is.

I absolutely agree with you. He does need someone to give him the puck. His primary assets are his speed and size and shot.

So my direct question to you is, how is he elite? How is he a top20 prospect? He can't create his own offense, so how is he elite? If you can't create your own offense in the AHL, how are you supposed to do it in the NHL?

Maybe he's only ever a great shot and wheels and a big body in the NHL. He can still be a really useful player, like Hagelin, but he won't be a first line player.

Stop acting so high and mighty. No one in this entire thread has claimed that Kreider will "amount to nothing' based on his college stats. I'm using them as an example of why he has limited upside.

But I guess to you making sarcastic remarks about my points ("I've REALLY seen him. Nobody else is REALLY watching him..") is the only way to respond to them?
C'mon. You know as well as I do that you've been on of his biggest critics. The fact is that there are several posters who are always on the negative side of the spectrum when it comes to Kreider. It's not personal. I just don't see the point in rehashing the same things over and over every time Kreider's name comes up when people continue to bring up the things the loonies say, instead of the things that rational posters have provided to the contrary.

In my take of prospect rankings, he's not elite. Does he have the potential to be? Under the right circumstances and with the right environment, I think he can be an elite goal scorer. He's never going to be a Datsyuk or Crosby in terms of "complete game" but his shot, speed, and size combination can make for a guy who has several 30-35+ goal seasons in his career. Those characteristics make him a very intriguing prospect for many people, and understandably so. I think the HF ranking of him as the #11 overall prospect is pretty generous. I'd say he's top-25, but #11 is too high. Then again, my list differs greatly from theirs.

Kreider nearly doubled his output once he was given the opportunity at BC and helped his team to another NCAA title, but some people continue to focus on his Freshman and Sophomore seasons as if the other never happened. It's disingenuous to say the least. Sometimes the situation just doesn't work for a player. It happens. If Kreider had never shown the ability to put up points in college, I'd say the stats might show more than they do now. If he hadn't played so well offensively in the playoffs last year, I might be concerned about his lack of production thus far this year. You can't draw a development curve that fits every single player. There's no benchmark for Kreider's development right now. Would I like to see him scoring at a PPG pace? Sure, but I'd also like to see him working on his defensive zone coverage and his decision making with the puck. He's a smart kid who is eager to better himself as a player. Those things will develop in time.

I don't have anything against you and I am sorry for the potshots. I think it ultimately boils down to there are a few overzealous fans out there that think Kreider is a lock for 80 points per year, and they give the rest of us a bad name. That rubs people the wrong way, and many take it too far in the other direction. In my opinion, Kreider has 60 point (35-25 or 30-30 ish) upside. Whether or not he reaches it is another story, but it's one that the majority of prospects have to deal with. Even the "elite" ones.

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