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12-28-2012, 04:10 PM
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
I think you're overstating Dionne's consistency/productivity a bit. He scored 100+ in 8/11 seasons in his prime, although 90+ in 12/12 seasons. Selanne scored over PPG in each of his first 8 seasons, and 3 more post-lockout. I just don't see much difference in their productivity, except that Dionne played in higher scoring eras and did not have the interruption due to injury which Selanne did, while Selanne was the better goal scorer.

I'm not sure exactly how you're defining it, but do you think Dionne outpointing Perreault, Clarke and Sittler is more impressive than the players Selanne outpointed (whether in single seasons or over a stretch of multiple seasons)? His first 8 seasons in the league, he outpointed everyone but Jagr, including Sakic, Oates, Yzerman, Lindros, Fedorov, etc.
It is similar, but like you said, the gap in Selanne's career hurts him and if he doesn't have that gap then who knows? But let's just look at Dionne for a second here. The guy never stopped scoring. He started out with a 77 point year. Then 90. Then 78 then 121. He has his first and last 100 point year 10 years apart. That's amazing, era regardless. And these were 130 point years, or 120. Not just squeaking in at 100.

I never did this with these two players so I tried it here (sorry if someone did this already) Top 20 points finishes:

Dionne - 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 12, 13, 13, 14, 17, 18, 18, 20
Selanne - 2, 2, 5, 5, 7, 8, 8, 12, 14, 19

Look, would we be selling Dionne short if we compared him offensively to Selanne? I think we would. Dionne did one thing extremely well and as good as few ever have, and that's score. He did too much of that to ignore it. Selanne's slightly better playoff record can't close the gap. I mean, Selanne was never neck and neck with the Art Ross winner, not even once. Dionne WAS an Art Ross winner and the kid he beat out was Gretzky. He was right there in the thick of things a few times, much closer than Selanne got. He had far too many elite seasons at the top for Selanne to be considered better than him. Dionne just simply never stopped scoring until his retirement year. That's a fabulous accomplishment because he crossed over doing it in two decades against some top end offensive talent. I am not saying Selanne didn't have the competition either, but he stood out less than Dionne.

Originally Posted by quoipourquoi View Post
Selanne's international play? I think he should have been removed from the Dionne-playoff category when he led his second best-on-best Olympics in scoring (Dionne was under a point-per-game in his two Canada Cups). And he gets punished too much for playing hurt in light of how he stretched out his career (drafted in 1988; top-10 scorer in 2011, team-leading scorer in 2012). With all due respect to Dionne's longevity, he stopped doing either of those at 33. The longer Selanne plays, the less and less 2003 and 2004 should matter.
Dionne still racked up 84 points in 1986-'87 at 35 years old. The guy had 126 points two years earlier. It isn't that Selanne doesn't have longevity either, because he does but I think even with his Olympic runs (no Gold medals) he still falls short behind Dionne.

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