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12-28-2012, 04:42 PM
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Wow, just wow. You know more about NA sports than any writer i have seen. Always pleasure to read your posts in history section.

On the matter,

I think Mario without cups would be pretty much the same. For me he is #4 all-time and frankly I cant see him drop lower. The sheer dominance he showed in the offensive zone is enough to put him in the same level as Gretzky. Mario without cups would most likely be the unanimous number 4 all-time. There would be little to none debate about if he was better than Orr/Howe/Gretzky.

I mean, the only forward who could match Lemieux's offensive output was Gretzky. There is no denying about the talent Lemieux had, and that is one of the ultimate best of all-time. Without the Cup wins there would be too much "what if's". Mario would still be #4, but the debate would be over for him.

1. Gretzky/Orr/.. Howe/ ........................... Lemieux

2.Beliveau, Shore, Richard, Hull....etc.
Hey, you still might be right. As it stands the gap from #4-5 is noticeable whether that's Hull, Beliveau, Harvey, etc. Lemieux without his Cups still has 6 scoring titles, the Harts, the 1987 Canada Cup and Canada still wins every tournament at the top level that he plays in. Beliveau definitely does not reach the regular season dominance of Lemieux, nor does Hull. It is entirely possible that Lemieux stays in the same spot. I guess that's the beauty of speculation, we can guess.

So if Lemieux never wins a Cup how does he do against guys from other sports who never won? Is he the best to never win a championship? Interesting. Here is his competition:

Lemieux, Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, Dan Marino, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Marcel Dionne, Brad Park.

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