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12-29-2012, 02:40 PM
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
Didn't you recently criticize Dionne for not ever winning a 7 game series? And now you are saying he elevated his teammates to a much higher level than Selanne did his?

You think he was about as good of a goal-scorer as Selanne? Selanne led in goals 3 times. Look at how he did vs. Canadian players:

'93: Selanne 76, Lemieux 69, Robitaille 63, Yzerman 58
'95: 10 above him
'96: 8 above him (9 if you count Hull)
'97: Selanne 51, Lemieux 50, Shanahan 47, Kariya 44
'98: Selanne 52, Nieuwendyk 39, Brind'Amour 36
'99: Selanne 47, Sakic 41, Lindros 40, Fleury 40, Kariya 39, Robitaille 39
'00: 5 above him (incl. Nolan)
'06: 4 above him (incl. Heatley)
'07: Lecavalier 52, Heatley 50, Selanne 48, St. Louis 43

Selanne's playmaking is underrated, although he clearly wasn't as good as Dionne in that area. His finishes vs. Canadians:

'96: 5 above him
'97: 8 above him
'99: Kariya 62, Selanne 60, Sakic 55
'00: Recchi, Oates, Sakic, Selanne
'11: 4 above him

Now as a point scorer, you don't think he's in Dionne's class, but rather more similar to Perreault? Really? So competition makes no difference, and Selanne was about as good of a point scorer as a player who in his three best seasons beat Pierre Larouche by 2 points ('76), tied Tim Young ('77), and finished 1 point ahead of Mike Rogers ('80)? You really think that's the same as losing Rosses to Lemieux and Jagr? Or even remotely close?
I can't force you to stop, but you really ought to stop the whole "Best finishes against Canadians" train of thought, it goes nowhere. Selanne and Dionne both had the NHL to play in as the best league in the world. Look at each of their top talent and tell me there aren't similarities. That's really all you have to do.

Yes, I do criticize Dionne for never winning a 7 game playoff series. We weren't talking about his dismal playoff record though when we were talking about elevating their teammates. It is obvious that Dionne elevated Simmer and Taylor's play. Not that they weren't fine players, but there is no doubt who the cream of the crop was on the Triple Crown line. Simmer did nothing until he teamed up with Dionne. Taylor as well clearly benefitted from Dionne. That's all.

Yeah the Perreault vs. Selanne comparison makes more sense than Dionne because overall Selanne is closer to Perreault than Dionne. There is a gap between Dionne and Perreault. In between somewhere is Selanne. He actually probably is favoured in an argument over Perreault, while he isn't with Dionne.

Add in all the stats with each player and throw in an impressive playoff resume for Perreault combined with an impressive international career and it actually is a nice comparison. Dionne's offense is just simply too hard to overcome.

As for goals, yeah there isn't a huge difference at all, while Dionne is noticeably the better playmaker.

Dionne - 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 8, 9, 10
Selanne - 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 10

Dionne finished in the top 5 more times. Selanne led the NHL three times, which is impressive of course. Dionne lost out to Bossy twice and had Lafleur there as well and then eventually Gretzky.

Look, Dionne just benefits from constantly racking up points year after year. He lives and dies with this method and if he is compared to a player that is similar to him that wasn't great defensively, not overly physical, not a legendary playoff performer, then a guy like Dionne is almost always going to win a battle like this because few players can match his offense in NHL history, and Selanne isn't one of them.

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