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12-30-2012, 10:31 AM
Czech Your Math
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Look at each of their top talent and tell me there aren't similarities. That's really all you have to do.
There are similarities at the top, at least during Dionne's peak, but the depth of competition was substantially better during Selanne's era. There's just no denying that when Euro/Russian/US players make up roughly half the top 5/10 in goals/points, that it's a lot harder to have high finishes.

If you look at their Hart finishes among forwards:

Dionne 2,2,3,3
Selanne 2,2,3

Again, very close. I don't think one should split hairs too much with award voting, it has some value, but it's not gospel either. Dionne has more depth of finishes, but that was when just a vote or two might be the difference between top 5 and out of the top 10, so almost meaningless IMO.

Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Yes, I do criticize Dionne for never winning a 7 game playoff series. We weren't talking about his dismal playoff record though when we were talking about elevating their teammates. It is obvious that Dionne elevated Simmer and Taylor's play. Not that they weren't fine players, but there is no doubt who the cream of the crop was on the Triple Crown line. Simmer did nothing until he teamed up with Dionne. Taylor as well clearly benefitted from Dionne. That's all.
Dionne was the straw that stirred the drink, but it's not like his linemates dropped off the proverbial cliff once they were no longer playing with him (league GPG weighted by GP in parentheses):

'82-85 LAK (ages 27-30): 214 GP, 89 G, 212 Pts, 0.99 PPG (7.85)
'85-87 BOS (ages 30-33): 198 GP, 98 G, 192 Pts, 0.97 PPG (7.65)

'84-86 (ages 27-30): 218 GP, 94 G, 232 Pts, 1.06 PPG (7.86)
'87-89 (ages 30-33): 205 GP, 70 G, 192 Pts, 0.94 PPG (7.41)

That's not far different from the decrease one might expect from a player simply due to age. Simmer doesn't really decline at all and Taylor's decrease is not more than would be expected due to age and decrease in league GPG. In fact, I'd say the decline from their last 3 years with Dionne to their next 3 years without him was less than most would expect, even without considering the difference in having (or not having) Dionne as their center.

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