[Czech Your Math]

Originally Posted by Big Phil

I think even if we give him the benefit of the doubt that he was finding his way on some bad teams and probably was going to be a late bloomer anyway the truth is during his first full season with Dionne on the Triple Crown line he was a guy who flirted with 50-in-50 in back to back years. There was no evidence of a career curve going in that direction otherwise. Same thing with Danny Grant. The difference is Grant was well established but he had by far his best season in 1974-'75 with Dionne scoring 50 goals.

Dionne elevated Simmer, just like Selanne elevated Kariya:

Kariya
before Selanne arrived('95, first 2/3 of '96): 103 points in 100 games
after Selanne arrived (last 1/3 '96, '97, '98): 174 points in 120 games

Originally Posted by Big Phil

1975 top 10: Orr, Esposito, Dionne
1977 - Lafleur, Dionne, Shutt
1979 - Trottier, Dionne, Lafleur
1980 - Dionne, Gretzky, Lafleur
1981 - Gretzky, Dionne, Bossy
1982 - Gretzky, Bossy, Maruk, Trottier, Savard, Dionne,
1983 - Gretzky, Savard, Bossy, Dionne
1985 - Gretzky, Hawerchuk, Dionne

It was hard to stand out at any time when you look at those names, it certainly isn't something we should discredit him with.

In the above quote, I reduced it to Canadian players. I'm not trying to discredit Dionne, but rather give Selanne proper credit for playing during an era with substantially more competition. The problem is that our perceptions of both the Canadian & non-Canadian players during Selanne's era are colored by the fact that they competed against each other, which damages our perceptions of both groups. Selanne vs. Canadian players:

1993 Lemieux Oates Yzerman Selanne
1996 Lemieux Sakic Francis Lindros Selanne
1997 Lemeiux Selanne Kariya Gretzky
1998 Gretzky Francis Selanne
1999 Selanne Kariya Sakic Lindros
2000 Recchi Kariya Selanne
2011 St. Louis Perry Stamkos Iginla Selanne

Dionne won once, and was deprived of wins by Gretzy, Orr/Espo, Lafleur and Trottier. Selanne beat all Canadians once, and was deprived of wins by Lemieux and an older Gretzky (Francis isn't finishing ahead w/o Jagr). Dionne had some other seasons where he was behind more than one player: Gretzky, Bossy, Savard, Trottier, Hawerchuk, etc. Selanne had some other seasons where he was behind more than one player: Lemieux, Sakic, Lindros, Oates, Yzerman, Kariya, Recchi, etc. Recchi may seem a bit out of place, but not as much as players like Maruk and Perry. Among Canadians only, Recchi won in 2000, was third in '94, and was 4th to Gretzky and Hull & Oates in '91, and 7th in '98, which would be quite a respectable record. Again, I see more similarity than difference when comparing the two. It doesn't matter which non-Canadians were at/near Dionne's level in his own era, but the many who were at/near the level of Dionne or Selanne in Selanne's era, since that affected Selanne's finishes and therefore our perception of him.