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12-31-2012, 12:33 PM
  #290
Epictetus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
You apparently do since you think the tournament is for alterior purposes other than bringing together the best junior players all over the world.
Ulterior purposes? Wut?

This is what I said:

This tournament is just as important for patriotism, international hockey, finance, and marketing future NHL players as it is for scouts.

Any further argument was to defend this point, since you are dismissing it completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
You then think that conclusions or information is basically useless based on bringing the best junior players together for a tournament
I never said 'useless'; I said 'meaningless'. There is a difference. The former indicates that it shouldn't even be gathered (in this case, that the games shouldn't be played). The latter indicates that the games should be played, however, not taken seriously by scouts because of the small sample size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
You seem to favor getting information and conclusions on players based off of larger sample sizes with diluted competition (despite knowing that the better competition awaits these players).
The competition is basically the same, in case you did not know. A lot of these players are teammates, opponents in junior, or opponents they've faced internationally. The games, however, are arguably more important. To suggest the competition is somehow different or superior than that of Junior is misleading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Is what it is? It is what it is for certain parties and certain parties only. The players play the same way that they do anywhere else and that's all that matters. A good scout can make allowances for certain circumstances but they ultimately want to see how players react to a quicker, stronger, more skilled game which you discount incorrectly.
Tell me why these games matter more than say: Memorial Cup, Junior playoffs, 8 game series between Russia and Canada, U-17, U-18 tournaments, etc. (a lot of these players participate in those)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
No they can if they give what is commonly refered to as "the benefit of the doubt". How has MacKinnon looked? Has his game changed against teams with better players? That's what they are looking for. And they are comparing to the same draft eligible players who are playing under the same set of circumstances that being increased competition.
And this is meaningless. Regardless of how Mackinnon performs, he is still going to be a top pick. Same with Jones, Barkov, etc. Just because HFBoards and it's quirkiness when it comes to scouting players thinks that Jones has performed like Ryan Murphy (see GDT of Canada v. USA), does not mean that Jones will drop.

However, as I said in my first post, the tournament does help raise awareness towards players who appear to answer questions about their game. The scouts will then see if this can carry over back to junior and other competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I disagree. Better competition awaits in the NHL and knowing that these tournaments should be looked to as more important than memorial cup runs or any similar tournament. Regular season tells you nothing since players like Drouin are facing children and many children that wont even make pro.
I am not sure what you are saying here since: a) some of these players do not make the NHL and b) if they do make the NHL, a lot of them do not turn out to be the huge performers they were at this tournament. This just relates to a scout over-valuing a small sample size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I disagree. I have played sports and know that I try my hardest every time.
You've changed your opinion here, going from doing whatever it takes to win to trying your hardest every time.

Trying your hardest is different than doing whatever it takes to win. Many athletes do not do whatever it takes to win, as other reasons, namely, financial take precedence. However, it's hard to say some athletes just give up on trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
That has nothing to do with how players perform and accordingly how scouts should view them.
It relates to the big picture of this tournament; it is just as political as it is for player performance.

This is just the unfortunate truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
They could host this tournament 5 times a year to make Pepsi money but the fact is these are usually the best players each country has to offer and they are going head to head both on the same team and against other teams.
The economics of doing this 5 times a year is debatable as the expenses would probably exceed the revenue.

Again, this tournament is only as hyped up as it is because of those other factors I listed relating to politics. It's ultimately not different than some of those other tournaments that I listed. If you think it is different, I would love to hear why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
After these WJC's I wouldn't be shocked if Drouin has bumped Jones out of the consensus #2 slot...
Based on the WJC, Drouin would be the #1 overall pick. He's performed the best out of all the undrafted players. I don't think anyone can question this. But, as I have argued, this tournament is meaningless.

For the sake of discussion (I don't actually entertain these thoughts): I think if he were to knock anybody out of the top spot, it'd be Mackinnon. You think Jones. However, we will have to wait and see.


Last edited by Epictetus: 12-31-2012 at 12:58 PM. Reason: Added the last post.
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