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01-03-2013, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
He seems to waver between absolutely brilliant and absolutely terrible. I wonder what his save percentage is against teams that aren't Boston or Chicago.
Roberto Luongo, career playoffs:
.894 on 734 SA against Chicago/Boston
.930 on 1134 SA against everyone else

Both of those samples need to be considered when evaluating his playoff career.

Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I'm curious about where you'd rank Kipper. Luongo vs. Kipper (for 03-12) is certainly debatable.
I have Luongo quite comfortably ahead of Kipper, who didn't make my top 40. Over those seasons Luongo was at .920 compared to Kipper's .914, which accounts for a difference of 120 goals on Luongo's shots against, equivalent to 2-3 wins per season. The main reason Kipper has a Vezina while Luongo doesn't is that Martin Brodeur had a much better year in 2006-07 than he did in 2005-06.

Also, as BM67 showed earlier, Luongo may have been helped by the Vancouver shot counter over the last couple of seasons but otherwise has mostly strong road numbers throughout his career. Kiprusoff has a majorly skewed home/road split (.920 career home, .907 career on the road). In his Vezina year he was .940 at home and .904 on the road.

Generally if goalies have major home/road splits it implies some kind of shot counting bias or team effects going on, and when choosing between the two the road sample is usually considered more reliable since it is much less likely to be impacted by biased shot counting or a team's unusual home ice advantage. Since the lockout Kiprusoff's numbers have been all over the place, seemingly varying much more than subjective evaluations of his play, which is why I think he wasn't quite as good as he looked when he was winning the Vezina, and probably not quite as bad as his numbers suggested when he was posting below-average save percentages. As a result, I don't give Kipper a peak advantage over Luongo at all, and I think Luongo's elite consistency from year to year puts him a level up on Kiprusoff.

Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg View Post
Also, the "comparative" part of me says that if Giacomin doesn't get in, then a guy like Roger Crozier has no business whatsoever to do in the Top-60.
Works for me, Crozier didn't make my top 60. I don't think goaltending from the immediate post-expansion era should be over-represented on this list, but that's the way we're apparently headed. The uneven competition of that time period certainly made a lot of goalies look good, but I think there were fewer true standouts than it appears.

Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Then why punish Giacomin, either?

Lundqvist hadn't accomplished much of anything until last year (when the Rangers put out a Defensive core that blocked more shots than anyone). Yet he had already equaled Giacomin and his 5 consecutive all-star berths?
I thought you were one of the guys who valued save percentage over awards voting, it certainly seemed that way when you were arguing against Martin Brodeur. How come you're now willing to give Giacomin the benefit of the doubt when he was the guy getting All-Star votes with merely decent save percentages behind a really good shot preventing team? Using a 25 GP minimum, Giacomin ranked 2nd and 5th (of only 8 qualifying goalies) in his 1AST seasons, and just 6th, 8th, and 8th in his 2AST seasons.

Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Dallas... great during the regular season, but you know what? They still had a 36 year old Moog between the pipes, and that's just as much why the series went 7 games as anything. But okay, we can give him one more series while in Edmonton - even if the team in front of him also pulled their weight with 4 goals in three of their four wins against Dallas (a team that allowed less than 200 goals over 82 regular season games that year).
I think you're definitely underselling Joseph's contributions. Let's ask the losing coach what he thought about that series:

Originally Posted by Ken Hitchcock, May 1, 1997
"The legacy of this series will be Joseph and our inability to finish. Joseph kept it together, especially in the third period and the overtime. When you have that, you usually win the series and the hockey game. His timely saves were the key to the series."
And reporters were certainly throwing around the words "stole" and "single-handedly" after Joseph's performance:

Originally Posted by Gil LeBreton, Fort Worth Star-Telegram, May 1, 1997
Edmonton's Curtis Joseph might never have another series like he enjoyed in this one. In the NHL playoffs, they say, one goalie can stand on his head and single-handedly elevate his team to unexpected heights. Joseph soared thrice. The man they called "Cujo" all but stole three games in the best-of-seven series. His paw prints were all over Game 7.

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