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01-05-2013, 04:18 PM
  #195
Melrose Munch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sour Shoes View Post
big market teams are never the losers. their competitive advantage will likely shrink (much like the last cba), but i can't find it within myself to feel sorry for them. especially after the weber poison pill. some big market teams & fans can't stomach a level playing field... not my problem. no, i do not feel big market fans are entitled to a better product because of population.
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
They're entitled to a better product because they pay more.
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Even a league with absolute central control, and a tiny salary cap (MLS) understands the inherent value in making money through the success of their large markets. They understand that "parity" is not the best route to success and growth.

It helps, but the fact remains that success in places like New York, LA or Chicago is simply more important to the league than success in Columbus, Salt Lake or San Jose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I agree. And Bettman has a conflict of interest as he's the one who brought in some of these struggling franchises.

He's so proud of no teams moving. Why? The NFL and NBA (Two more successful leagues) seem to have no issue with it.

It's a very flawed economic theory he has going. There are teams that won't make money no matter what deal is signed. Meanwhile, the teams giving money to the poor ones aren't making any with no season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sour Shoes View Post
because of the supply/demand effect of a larger population... again, not my problem. there are small market fans that are dumb enough to support a league with haves & have nots (see - anyone who ever has paid a dime to watch a ball game at pnc park). i'm just saying i, and hopefully most others, wouldn't support such a league. for any toronto fans that hate the cap... are you jays fans?? did you enjoy the last 20 years sharing a division with the yankees and red sox? (toronto's current year spending spree notwithstanding)
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
I think no cap has helped the Blue Jays this year. They have a big advantage over the Leafs right now in spending.

And larger population has little to do with it. Phoenix has a huge/growing population.

I don't see any lack of parity in the NHL. Every team has an equal chance. I think people have issues with the cap coming down now more than the cap itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Enjoy your 12 team league. The NHL is driven by gate revenues. People will not attend games if their team has no chance of winning, ever.

If this is what you want, that's fine. I doubt very much that the NHLPA will sign off on it.
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Not my problem.

See how that works?
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Originally Posted by Sour Shoes View Post
is this where i say touche'? i'm already aware that big market fans don't give a **** about the smaller markets. which is why nobody should care if the big market teams are "the losers" during this lockout.
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
Pirates fans are so unbelievably salty.

News flash! The NL Central has been won by four different teams in the last five years.

If you think the economics of baseball is the reason they Pirates are so consistently terrible you are just looking for an excuse.

Also, PNC Park is a shrine. I don't care how bad the team is that place is always worth a visit.

And yes, I am a Jays fan, and I love sharing a division with the Yankees and Red Sox. And I can tell you unequivocally that the Blue Jays ownership has LOVED having them in the division. When those big spenders visit town, those are the Jays' (and every other team in baseball's) best gates of the season.

And you cant say "current year spending spree notwithstanding". The current spending spree is an example of exactly how a "small" (and I use that term loosely because the Jays' owners are super rich) market teams build through the draft, and gradually, but most importantly, financially responsibly, build themselves to a level where they are in a position to spend money.

Mandating limits and floors and percentages to be spent is horribly misguided and static response to economic and performance factors that are always changing.
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
It will never happen.

See how that works?
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
You got a lot to look forward too this year then. Jays fans have suffered lately, but management has you guys in position to get maybe a 3rd WS title. Us White Sox fans just hope we finally make the playoffs again.
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Originally Posted by Pilky01 View Post
I am psyched. Anthopolous built through the draft and trades, and when the opportunity presented itself to compliment his young core with high priced, proven talent, he jumped on it.

Instead of dismantling his young core because of salary constraints, he is able to add to it and make a serious run at the playoffs.

Amazing the things you can do when you aren't burdened by a ridiculously over complicated talent cap. Even perennial losers, in a "non-traditional" market, competing with the biggest payrolls in sport, can turn it around through sound management and prudent negotiating

But no, a salary cap would be much more simple.
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Actually some leagues require you to earn a spot.

No "anybody behaving in the best interests for growing the league and the game" does not "deserve a seat at the table". You prove you belong first before I give you a team at the big table.
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
In the 18 years PRIOR to the salary cap, 10 different teams won the Stanley Cup and 21 different teams played in the finals.
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
To be honest the recipe hasn't worked for the NHL because the players have dominated in CBA negotiations over the past 25 years and the leadership amongst the NHL owners is a joke. Combine that with shaky revenue, TV numbers, and overall league wide support and you have a recipe for disaster or 2 work stoppages in 6 years.

I am not going to debate the cap with you again though; you have made it clear that you believe the league was and is better off without a cap and I stand by my opinion [Mod]; your undying love and passion for the big market team you cheer for. Regardless the NHL will never get rid of the cap and I would argue that any professional sport league without one is a dinosaur due to the modern day free agency rules.

Listen up.


Pilky01 is telling the truth. A cap will never make up for the fact NBC, CBS, FOX will get pissed if a team not from the east coast or Chicago is not in the finals of any sport. It won't change the that Pittsburgh, Columbus, Cleveland are not the first choice because like any other 20-25 year old players want to be where they can have a life. All the salary cap does is spread the talent around to keep everyone happy but the TV networks. NBC does not like when a Canadian(outside of MTL, TOR) are on. Why? Because the market wants The largest TV markets. No one is jumping to live in the small market Midwest and there's a reason for that, not because of the salary cap, but because it sucks.

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