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01-09-2013, 08:58 PM
  #346
Mayor Bee
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All right, I'll bite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
NHL talent. Sure, Burke had more "talent". It was also underperforming on horrible contract terms in a capped league with many no trade clauses where the underperforming players refused to waive--so what could have been an "asset" wasn't because Burke couldn't get market value for guys. Imagine having 4-5 Rick Nash-type contracts on Day 1 as a GM and that is exactly the situation Burke spent 2-3 years trying to solve.
Not even close. For one thing, the highest-paid player was Pavel Kubina ($5 mil per year). Second, only a small number of players had NTCs of any type.

Pavel Kubina - $5 million per year - NTC was inactive if Leafs missed playoffs in 2008-09, lasting from the draft through August 15.
Tomas Kaberle - $4.25 million per year - NTC was inactive if Leafs missed playoffs in 2008-09, lasting from the draft through August 15.
Vesa Toskala - $4 million per year (first of a two-year contract) - no NTC
Jason Blake - $4 million per year (second of a five-year deal) - no NTC
Martin Gerber - $3.7 million per year (last of a three-year deal) - no NTC
Jeff Finger - $3.5 million per year (first of a four-year deal) - no NTC
Niklas Hagman - $3 million per year (first of a four-year deal) - no NTC
Mike Van Ryn - $2.9 million per year (third of a four-year deal) - no NTC
Nikolai Antropov - $2.05 million per year (second of a two-year deal) - no NTC

That's two players who had NTCs, and those were fairly limited in scope. The conditions to suspend the NTC (missing the playoffs) was met, meaning that both Kaberle and Kubina could be traded. And Kubina was...basically for Garnet Exelby, who hadn't done anything in five years and was a third-pairing defenseman on the best day of his life.

Quote:
Farm system? What great NHL talent was down on the farm when Burke arrived, exactly? The 5 years of draft preceding Burke's arrival were pretty poor. The cupboard was bare. Gunarsson, Stalberg and James Reimer were the top of the heap of their talent.
Young (under-25) talent on the NHL roster when Burke took over:
- Matt Stajan
- Mikhail Grabovski
- Lee Stempniak
- Luke Schenn
- Ian White
- John Mitchell
- Anton Stralman
- Jiri Tlusty
- Christian Hanson (who'd been a hotly-pursued college UFA)

Further down in the system were also Nikolai Kulemin, Justin Pogge, Matt Frattin, and Jimmy Hayes, all of whom had high value up through mid-2010.

Want to compare that to what Columbus had in June 2007?

Quote:
As for drafting, I'm not sure Howson wins quite as easily as you seem to think. The only guys to play at least one "full" season in the NHL are Johansen, Moore and Jake Voracek. Verdict is still out on Johansen and Moore. Voracek is a good but not great pick, particularly with a top 10 pick. For Burke, verdict is out on Kadri and Luke Schenn has been a decent defenseman--whether he gets to the next level still being somewhat up in the air. The further along we've gotten in Howson's reign the more it has become clear that some prospects simply aren't going to live up to the hopes people had for them. Consider that one of our best prospects is Atkinson, a 6th round pick (the same year that Scotty thought it wise to select Mr. Filatov) and it is unclear whether he'll ultimately be able to handle the rigors of the NHL on a daily basis over 82 games.
Since Burke took over drafting, Toronto has had the following players see NHL ice for even a single game:
- Nazem Kadri

Since 2009, Columbus has had:
- John Moore
- David Savard
- Ryan Johansen
- Dalton Prout

From 2008 alone, Columbus had 5/9 in the NHL. One (Steven Delisle) has been traded, and two of the other three (Sean Collins and Drew Olson) are still in the system. Now, I can't hold 2008 against Burke; he wasn't around.

Quote:
If Howson "wins" on this count, it is more because Burke flubbed so badly in Toronto. Which is interesting when you consider that this is the same GM who managed to selected both Sedins, Bobby Ryan, Jake Gardiner, Ryan Kesler, Kevin Bieksa, Chris Pronger, and...RJ Umberger. Heck, Burke has done a better job drafting from the CCHA over his career than Howson, and Howson is in the same city as a CCHA team.
And Doug MacLean was a pretty good coach in Florida; it made no difference in Columbus. Heck, even Scotty Bowman had his Buffalo...so too does Burke have his Toronto.

Quote:
There is nothing particularly noteworthy about Howson's drafting. Yet you continue to act as if there is.
Time will tell, but I'd have the CBJ drafting since 2007 safely in the top-10 around the league. And that's without the benefit of being able to pick someone like a Tavares or Doughty or Stamkos.

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