AAA 2012 Division Semis: Pittsburgh Professionals vs. Eisbaren Berlin
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01-10-2013, 04:18 AM
Join Date: Sep 2009
I'm not too sure how to compare these goalies, but I see Puppa with a conclusive edge. He was voted the second best goalie behind Martin on our first all-star team. I don't think he's certainly better than Winkler or Robertson, but I wouldn't say Collins was robbed either. I view this as the biggest difference between our teams.
It seems like Collins's appeal rests mostly on his longevity. Collins played 7 seasons which is impressive, but not unheard of. Frank Stocking played 8 seasons with Quebec during the same period. Collins's GAA ranks are solid, but his final season was 1900. I'm not particularly convinced by cases based on GAA for goalies this far back either or I'd argue Riley Hern was better than Percy LeSueur and that was 7 years later.
Collin's GAA Ranks
'93 4.3 GAA (3/5)
'94 1.9 GAA (1/5)
'95 2.7 GAA (2/5) #1 only played 4 GP
'96 4.1 GAA (5/5)
'97 3.3 GAA (T2/5)
'98 2.6 GAA (1/5)
'99 3.2 GAA (2/5)
His career was over 6 years before guys like Henri Menard, Dave Finnie, and Billy Hague were winning the Stanley Cup as the goalies of other strong clubs. His Stanley Cup in 1895 was essentially a sham as well, 1894 was earned however.
1894 ended with a 4-way tie (out of 5 teams!) between Montreal AAA, the Vics, Ottawa and Quebec. Quebec withdrew from the playoffs after disagreeing on where the games should be played, leaving MAAA to play the Vics and Ottawa receiving a bye. MAAA won 2-1 win over the Vics and 3-1 win over Ottawa to clinch the league subsequently earning the Stanley Cup as winners of the AHAC. This is the pinnacle of Collin's career to me.
I have serious problems with 1895 however. It ended with MAAA tying for second in the league. During the Stanley Cup challenge era you had to win your league to challenge for the Cup and if you were the Cup holder who lost their league championship then you lost the Cup with it. Despite this precedent, the Cup trustees ruled that because they scheduled MAAA to play in the Stanley Cup before the close of the AHAC season that MAAA should still challenge for the Cup. The kicker was that if they won, it would be award to the Vics who actually won the AHAC that year and that's exactly what happened as MAAA was pitted against a sub-standard Queens University club.
I guess you could call that a playoff win compared to Paton's MAAA club being handed the Stanley Cup at the end of the 1893 AHAC regular season, but he's literally the only goalie in history you can make that comparison for. 1893 was the first year the Cup was awarded and every other season afterwards was part of the challenge era where you had a "playoff" like 1895. 1894's defeat of the Vics before the Ottawa is more of what I consider the playoffs as opposed to the Stanley Cup finals.
Why I called Queen's University sub-standard:
Originally Posted by
Trail of the Stanley Cup Vol. 1
The college boys, although described as looking very fierce in their tiger jerseys, were no match for the fast Montrealers and the game proved uninteresting.
When you consider that Collins was playing behind James Stewart and Allan Cameron in 1984, and Allan Cameron in 1895 you have even more reason to question how valuable Collins was to his team's success. We shouldn't be calling Collins a two-time Stanley Cup winner and I don't see one Stanley Cup win from a goalie with very good, but not unmatched, longevity from a pretty weak era as anything too special at this level.
Last edited by Rob Scuderi: 01-10-2013 at
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