Thread: Line Combos: 2013 Line Combos
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01-12-2013, 11:15 AM
  #658
MAK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
Do you know why a tank plan like you suggest is so obtuse? So completely misguided? So we trade Spezza, Gonchar, Anderson and Michalek. Then how do we replace them? That is the problem. You can not find talented players easily. Free agency has become a very limited enterprise and not only do you need to find a high quality free agent, you need to lure him here from among 29 other options. Even if the Senators make the short list it is usually not even about money... it is about term. And moreso it is about ties to a city, family reasons... all kinds of things that make other cities often better options. Surely some players would love to sign here, but most will not. We got Gonchar because we were I think the only team to offer him a 3 year deal.
Spezza = Top 3 pick
Anderson =< Lehner
Gonchar = Weircioch (may not be as good but Gonchar is old and leaving for Pitts or Russia in the summer anyway)
Michalek = UFA or developing prospects. Not a legitimate 1st line player imo and will eventually be able to be replaced from within.

These guys will be TRADED, which means they'll get players/picks back. They are good players which means good returns that can help offset their loss a good deal or possibly even completely. They won't be lost for nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
So you can go and trade veteran players and get what in return? Lesser quality roster players, picks and prospects. And then you wait until they MIGHT become important parts of the team. So we should get rid of our best centre, our best winger, our best goalie and our 2nd best defenceman? It is a very optimistic.... well actually more like fantasy to think we are going to replace that kind of production anytime soon if they were traded. And also if we got rid of those guys we would be MASSIVELY under the cap.
I wouldn't trade Spezza or Michalek unless a good package was coming back. Like that Wild deal (not even sure I would do it).

You're kidding yourself if you think their returns won't help at all. And the point is to tank. Again, you're kidding yourself if you think that pick won't help.

Spezza would get a better return than Nash (if that's what you're afraid of) because I believe he doesn't have a no trade clause, he's cheaper, he's a centre and he's just plainly a better player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
What you fail to take into consideration is that the REAL NHL is not a video game or a fantasy league. You can't just get a quality player easily... you either wait years for him to develop or hope you luck into a trade. It is skill to make a good trade... but it also takes lucky circumstances to roll together. Turris wanted out and had contract and issues with his former team. We know all about Heatley... basically 3 times on a forced trade. Joe Thornton to San Jose.. suddenly he is just traded and no other team but San Jose knew he was available. Anderson and Elliott was the oddest combination of circumstances for both teams. It is HARD to make a trade for a truly talented top echlon player, it happens rarely and you end up sometimes just being lucky to get a guy.
And you fail to take into consideration that most quality players are acquired through the draft. Hence, the tank. Quality young > Quality old player.

Trading Spezza assures a top pick... his great return is gravy on top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
Want to know why Foligno was moved for Methot? Because we legitimately had several good prospects ready THIS SEASON to play his 2nd/3rd line winger job. We really needed a competent 2 way defenceman that was physical. We weren't dumping Foligno... it took that much to get a youngish physcial 3/4/5 defenceman.
Several? You mean 1, right?

If Silf flops, there is no one.


Methot is so FAR from a 2-way D-man, I can't believe I just read that.

And no, we didn't really need him to be physical. If physicality was SO important, Lee and Carkner would have been retained and Gilroy would not have traded for and Lundin would not have been signed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
Kuba was decent last year. He was good. He is also old and he wasn't that good the couple of years before. I am sure if they could have got him to sign for 1 year they would have strongly considered it. At 2 years they moved on from Kuba.
Sure.

All I'm saying is 2011-12 Kuba >>> whatever Methot will bring.

I don't expect the Sens to be as good as last year. Might as well tank instead of finishing 10th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
This team has the pieces to compete now and compete for many more years to come. Fleecing the team of most of the best talent basically, that isn't Karlsson, is impossibe under the Cap anyway.... and so wrong headed. It would take years to get back the talent.
No it wouldn't... top 3 selection, hello..

There is no penalty for being under the cap floor. You can run with a $20M payroll if you want.



With the money I would take a run at Perry. There are limits contracts now... limits on how crazy you can get. 7 years @ $9M per would get Perry's attention. The money is there.

MacKinnon + Perry + Granlund + Brodin + Larsson >>>>> Spezza

Hypothetical but that kind of situation with those kinds of players is not completely impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
What we are doing as a franchise is WAITING for that trade or move. We have a ton of Cap Space and the owner will spend the money. We just need to make a deal to get a great asset that we want WHEN ONE BECOMES AVAILABLE and we will pay the $$$$ and give up the futures we need to get him. We have forward prospects and roster players and a 3rd goalie. We have like $20 million in cap room.. or something like that. We were IN on the Nash sweepstakes. Nash did not have the Senators on his list of teams he would go to. But Murray definitely kicked the tires.
Thing is I think we should do the OPPOSITE.

Instead of giving up assets for a guy like Nash, ACQUIRE assets for Spezza/whoever --> then proceed to clean up at the draft and free agency, getting all the best players.

Getting players in trades in never free, obviously. Drafting players and signing them in free agency on the other hand is ''free''. All it costs is money; no assets, no prospects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
I am telling you how it IS. Thinking trading 4 of our top 6 or 7 players is a good idea... is so ridiculous. We don't have a SINGLE bad contract. The team is now perfectly built to attract a deal or a Free Agent and for the current prospects to have lots of room to develop... and we are good enough to make the playoffs last year and challenge for them this year. Most experts I have seen are putting the Sens right in the middle of the pack in the league. We finished 16th last year and most think we are about that good now. Again with a Cap minimum payroll and tons of spots on the roster for prospects to develop. Trading the core of the team for picks and lesser young players would be dumb.
It's been done before, trading half your good players. Gonchar is gone anyway. Anderson is redundant now. Michalek is nothing special imo and replaceable.

That leaves Spezza. It's not an easy pill to swallow. I get it. If I was GM (incoming thank Alfie you're not) I may not have the guts to do it even if the team was in 15th at the trade deadline.

There's risk involved. ie the top pick doesn't pan out, no UFAs want to come here, etc. But if it does pan out, it could pay off BIG TIME.

Imagine having a Tavares on entry level. Imagine acquiring Granlund and Brodin and have them develop into extremely solid NHLers. Imagine signing Perry in free agency. This is so much better than Spezza. AINEC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
What we will do and should do... is wait until the deadline. Make deals for players that seem likely to resign with us, or still have term on their contracts. Then there actually will be some players of value available. Some teams will have fallen out of the playoff races. Some will want to dump players with term on their contracts because of the cap going down next season.
All you want to do BUY BUY BUY. The Sens aren't in a position to do that right now.

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