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01-17-2013, 10:23 PM
  #157
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Lafleurs Guy what you're ignoring is that we pay money to watch the team ENTERTAIN us.

Beyond cups, prospects, talent and stats it's fundementally mindless entertainment for the masses. It doesn't make sense to go so deep into strategic long-term tanking as success that way is not only NOT guaranteed but a lack of talent is a sure way to turn off fans, ruin club image and devalue it completely.
It absolutely DOES make sense. Whether we suck or not this year you'll still watch. Why? Because you'll want to see how Galchenyuk is developing, you'll want to watch Subban...


We had a horrendous season last year and yet here we all are on the Habs forum. You're not going anywhere man. And I don't know about you, but I love watching up and coming talent lacing up for us. I've loved watching Price and Subban and Max... I'll watch no matter what and so will you.

This is just another tired excuse for not rebuilding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
No one will argue that picking up studs isn't really, really awesome. But that's not the point: As slightly obsessive hockey fans we go back and forth over a little turf in the realm of possibilities - long term tanking is just NOT going to happen. Not with a new owner who doesn't want to devalue the franchise, not when the market is (or was pre-lockout) white hot, not when there are foundations in the organization that can expedite talent development, not when tickets are so expensive, not when the team is finally attractive to UFAs, etc.
Whether or not rebuilding will happen is an entirely different story. But it SHOULD happen because its the best way to develop a team for the long term and our best bet at a cup.

Our only hope is that Molson realizes this and actually wants to win.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It just won't happen and the concept is an insult to the fans who pay an awful lot to watch the team perform.
BS. Go smell what you're shovelling.

Were you insulted when we drafted Galchenyuk?

I'll tell you what was insulting... getting Bourque and Kaberle in some stupid desperate attempt at making 8th. THAT was insulting. It's been insulting for the last 20 years as we've watched 8th place become the gold standard and baffiliing that guys like you continue to defend this philosophy as virtuous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You have spent a lot of text over the years arguing the same principles but you still don't seem to acknowledge that you can't guarantee success by tanking and that sports are to entertain, first, win second.
You can't guarantee success no matter what...

What's your point here? We shouldn't go after the best talent? We shouldn't try to win? Because there's no guarantees we should just give up? What colour is the sky in your world dude?

Top picks on average produce the best players. That is FACT. It only makes sense to get as many as you can and build with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
For us obsessives, we were okay (begrudgingly) with losing last year but by and large it sucked for everyone involved from team to management to fans. It's awful to lose and to suck and I know that the Habs are too traditional to even consider selling off their prime assests.
The building will still be full. The cash will still flow. YOU will still watch and you will still post here. That's how it is.

We have the advantage of being able to rebuild without any real consequence to the financials. Other teams can only dream of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Markov is a Hab from his first game, he's not trade bait and also his value is unknown since he has so many cobwebs. Why even bring him up?
Are you freaking serious?

Go read the reasoning behind it. It's crystal clear. Makes no more sense to keep him than it did Koivu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Plekanec removed from the squad would expose guile-less (amongst other things) set of centres with little defensive acumen. This is the kinda shiz that gets you scored on, ruins games and fouls up seasons. Which as I argued before, will not be part of anybody's strategic plan.
Who cares?

We aren't winning anything anyway. Who cares if we're more exposed? You care about 8th... I don't. I care about cups and that's the difference between you and me. I couldn't care less about going for 8th and not winning anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
We already have solid prospects. Prospects are great, but not at the expense of emptying the cupboard of everyone over 30 years old. Dumping developed talent for developing talent isn't a ticket to the Cup, it just creates an aura of anticipation for a future that may never pay off.
Dealing Markov, Pleks and Cole will bring us closer to a cup. I realize this is a hard concept to get... but sometimes a step back means two steps forward. Those guys aren't going to win anything with us. Makes sense to trade them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Defer, defer, defer. All you've done is mask the problem with youth, which is the flip side of masking the problem with aging vets. The Habs have been guilty of the latter; you're suggesting we switch to the former.
You have things backwards. Sticking wtih vets who will never win anything for you is defer defer defer and that's what we've done for 20 years.

How do you not understand this yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
You need a balance, which is why every Cup winner has a mix of youth, prime and vets.
No kidding. The players we add now will be better in three years. By that time guys like Subban, Price, Emelin, Max and Gorges will be vets. As we get better and actually become contenders THEN we can deal away picks for more vets and we can go after whatever FAs are available to help.

We've tried to do it backwards and it hasn't worked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Collberg -- all will begin making an impact in about three years. What better veteran presence at that time than a 33 year-old Plekanec?
Are you kidding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
As to an already-older Markov, I agree, I would deal him for Forsberg for all the reasons you mentioned. I'd guess most of us would. But Washington wouldn't. And there's the problem. All this talk about prospects really comes down to TOP prospects, which are much, much harder to land. I mean, Eller and Nokeleinen were 1st-rounders, as was AK, but that didn't bring us closer to a Cup. Let's see if a first-round pick from Columbus or the Islanders is even on the table before we debate who we'd trade away. I doubt it is.
Washington wouldn't? Maybe you're right. But they'd might do it for Pleks. Or maybe it's a combination of vets... Let Timmins guide us on which prospects to go after. We should trust his judgement. If Forsberg is a real building block, then do it. Now you've got Forsberg, Galchenyuk plus whatever else we get in the draft... THAT's how you build teams.

If Washington is in the hunt and we can give them the final piece, they might give up Forsberg. And I find it hilarious that the same folks last season who said they'd never deal Markov for that pick are now turning around and saying Washington would never trade Forsberg for Markov...

Funny how those picks turn into good prospects.

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