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01-18-2013, 12:17 PM
  #937
Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Schenn was traded for Richards, a player with a better level than the ones we have. And Richards was playing for a team that was nowhere near a rebuilding phase.
Dude... stop trying to make excuses. We have the resources to make that kind of trade. Pleks, Markov, Gionta, Cole... a combination of any of those players. And Richard's contract (if I remember) sucked.

You keep trying to come up with silly reasons why we can't do this. We can. We just don't want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
The problem is not to have a GM happy with a 8th place, its that the GM needs to be competent in order to change that 8th place to a 7th, then a 6th etc...
Rebuild and watch us progress. We'll improve year by year... why do you think this won't happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
If we are using Chicago or Pittsburgh as a model, well fine, lets go bankrupt and have a team so putrid that 5 years of Top-5 picks are necessary to turn things around.

But since our team with Price, Subban and Pacioretty already have 3 high-caliber players under 25, i think its going to be difficult to suck that bad. Sure, we were 15th last year, we needed an horrible interim coach, being Top-3 in man-games lost by injury and a incredible number of poor decisions by our GM.
We're not Pittsburgh and we're not starting from zero. That's my point. We're not going to be at the bottom for long. Maybe this year and that's it. Price, Subban, Max... that's great to start with. Next year Galchenyuk. Next thing you know we're in 8th then 6th then we're contenders.

We're not starting from zero dude. Stop being silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
(Did Pittsburgh trade for picks ?
Did Columbus, Edmonton, Chicago or the Islanders ?
No. Those clubs did things the hard way and sucked for years. They didn't accelerate their rebuilds they tried to go against the rebuild. The Islanders basically traded away a Stanley cup winning team of prospects. The Oilers lost out on first rounders trying to get an RFA...

If they'd done the opposite, they'd be better off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Its impossible to do nowadays. Top-5 picks have already a huge reputation when they're drafted.
BS. The Ducks were in the hunt for a cup. Absolutely you make those kinds of trades. I'd make that trade if I were them. And Burke said as much back then... he wouldn't trade Ryan for a rental it would have to be a smart hockey deal. Koivu and Souray is a smart hockey deal for them.

They'd have been stupid not to make that deal. And we were stupid for not offering it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
And of course, the Flyers would have greacefully let Giroux walk away, not realizing what they had between their hands.
I don't think they would've let him go either. But it's hilarious that folks here laughed us out of the room saying that we'd be crazy to give up Markov. Well...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
I dont think that GM are very smart in general, but if allegedly (important word) good prospects are traded, history showed us that there is only a limited number of options about the why.

A combination is impossible considering the cap situation.

The problem is that these players are in a situation where they are very difficult to move at a right value. Not flashy enough to give you a grade A prospect or a Top-8 pick. But too important to give them away without really nitpicking on the return.
Yeah right... prospects can't be traded. Except they are all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
Washington's extra pick is from Colorado, a team that was not supposed to be picking that low. No way that they deal this one.
We didn't even try. We wasted Cammy to save face and a desperate play for the GM to save his job... and then we totally screwed up AK.

That was it. No sale, no realization that we were out of it. And a 13th overall isn't worth Pleks? Well if Pleks isn't worth a 13th then why is he so indispensible? Which is it? You are contradicting yourself here. On the one hand he's Yzerman and we can't give him up. On the other he's not worth a 13th overall in a year where Backstrom was hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
The only pick you could have was Washington's and if you deal them away a good player, obviously, it would have been a lower pick than 16th.
Yeah right... and we got all we could for AK and Cammy too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
It doesnt make any sense anymore to deal away prospects.
Picks, yes, because there is an unknown element, but prospects, not really, because they can bring a plus to a team at a fair price, and there is an implication on the rest of the prospect pool.
I'm all for dealing away prospects when you're a contender. Sure, go for it. If you get a vet who can get you to a cup for the next couple of years it's absolutely worth it.

We're just never in this position... because we didn't rebuild to begin with. Going the quick fix route has killed us. We do things backwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
I would love it if you can show me 5 good prospects that were/are traded to a team that is in the midst of a rebuilding scenario. I can only come up with two.
Otherwise, the prospects are not that good, the deal is dramatically lopsided, or the team receiving the prospect was the better one of the two at the time (like in Schenn's/Richard's case, or in Staal's/Pouliot's, Kessel's/Seguin's...)
I've done this before. Go look it up yourself, I'm not doing the work here. Prospects and picks get traded for all the time. We're not talking about trying to get Nathan Mackinnon man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
A solid asset management is enough to be a regular presence in PO. And not as a team stealing the 8th spot in the 82th game.
Phoenix and Nashville are proving it every year. Without very high picks...
And from that point, you can be a decent team (Devils-like) with only a few good moves.
Thats why they all chose this road.

You believe that Bergevin could be hired if he says to Molson that we have to blow this team apart whereas other candidates surely have an idea or two with that current core ?
I don't think the core needs to be blown apart. I think the core is now Price, Subban and Max. That's what we'll buidl with. They are the core of this team. Pleks, Gionta, Markov, Cole... they are expendable assets.

If Molson wants a cup, yeah I think he'd listen. Why wouldn't he? It's just a question of what he deems success. If it's 8th place, well then no. If it's a strategy of just make the playoffs and wait and see then no.

If it's a cup though? Absolutely. That's what Leonsis did. He blew apart the team and was rewarded for it. He hasn't won a cup (yet) but he'll have multiple shots at it with a core that's still in it's prime. Some owners actually care about trying to win cups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
I believe that you are really overestimating the return we can find for them.
Assuming Cole and Markov play well, both are worth a first. Pleks is worth a solid prospect + a pick. That's two firsts, a good prospect and probably a 2nd to work with. Not unrealistic at all. And this is a deep draft dude. Factor in our own pick plus the one we got from Calgary and we'd have three firsts (one probably top ten) two seconds and the prospect...

Rebuild is done. And we'd be in awesome shape going forward.

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